MVM Wizardry

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Werbad, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Werbad

    Werbad L1: Registered

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    Wizardry is a Mann vs Machine map that I have been working on for about 2 and a half years, not continuously but the first version was around there somewhere. The map features wizard themed waves with a lot of custom bots mixed in.

    The map has been tested by me and some of my friends and confirmed beatable without too much difficulty. However, as most of us are 50+ tour MvM players as well as me being the main dev, this is likely to be biased. I'm currently looking for feedback on the 5 missions included to make sure they are of a difficulty somewhat level comparable to the official maps.



    Mission List
    Casual:
    An attempt at an intermediate difficulty mission. Not properly tested due to skill gap.

    Normal:
    A basic mission featuring 7 waves. Probably above normal difficulty.

    Advanced:
    A mission with 8 waves. High overall credit count with some pretty intense waves towards the end.

    Impostors:
    A mission featuring me and some of my friends as bosses at the end of each of the 8 waves.

    Wheel of Doom:
    A mission featuring the wheel of fate from Ghost Fort. Every wave starts with the wheel being spun, ending on a predetermined card affecting the players for the rest of the wave.



    Special Thanks to:
    The Wizard Degon - Original map concept and one of the main supporters coming up with a lot of ideas for the map. Currently standing at the top of the wizard tower. Impostor Mission Wave 6 boss.
    Thunder Tits - Some of the most evil ideas came from this individual. Most of which were tested and then quickly discarded, the map has to be beatable in the end. Impostor Mission Wave 5 boss.
    Rob Is A Thing - Previous owner of the servers we ran most of the tests on. Impostor Mission Wave 3 boss.
    Jakebob-Smegheneghan - Pun spewing Welshman who recorded a few of our earlier tests. Impostor Mission Wave 1 boss.
    flipples - Impostor Mission Wave 4 boss.
    Acewonder - Impostor Mission Wave 2 boss.
    Commissar L - Impostor Mission Wave 8 boss.
    Warboss Grimjaw - Impostor Mission Wave 8 boss.
    Seviecookie - Impostor Mission Wave 7 boss.
    And of course anyone who's helped me test the map over the years. This wouldn't have happened without people playing the map.
     
  2. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Let me the first to say: wow. This map looks pretty amazing, and the number of waves you've included is great. Some of the screenshots look a little dark, and that picture shot from above kinda highlights how much cobble there is everywhere, but otherwise this certainly looks like a great map.

    Alias, can we get some MvM testing on this ASAP?
     
  3. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

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    I NEED to play this map with the wheel of doom on >:3
     
  4. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    looks cute
     
  5. puxorb

    aa puxorb L69: Emoticon

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    Your ambient lighting could use a little work. I think taking a look at something like gorge's or 2fort's lighting might be a better fit for this map. Maybe even just copying degrootkeep's lighting for now.

    Environment Gallery
     
  6. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

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    The map feels dark overall for it not being overcast and has a strange tint to it. I really like the sound of Wheel of Doom though :D
     
  7. Deadon

    Deadon L1: Registered

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    I thought of Harry Potter when I saw this, Which I'm pretty sure it's a good thing, Unless Voldemort destroys it. :p
     
  8. UltimentM

    UltimentM L1: Registered

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    Hey, here is some feedback:

    - Good looking map (Always a plus)
    - Cool waves and good balance of difficulty (only real complaint is that there are so many different types of robots in certain waves, and they drag out a bit too long)
    - Cool mechanics with wave hampers and bosses, but I don't like how they are wave-specific. Maybe make it so it affects everyone (humans and robots) and it is random
    - Maybe too many robot icons?
    - So many places that look like they can be accessed... But can't.
    But...
    WHAT SORT OF WIZARD MAP DOES NOT ALLOW SPELLBOOKS?

    A big add-on, I would consider, is the addition of spell books, which would be a good substitute for the power-up canteen. If you add spell books around the map (with maybe 1 or 2 powerful ones) it would be another cool mechanic.

    But, good work!

    (Also, helicopter heavies bounce around too much, and are extremely hard to take out. Either make them jump less, or give them less health.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  9. Werbad

    Werbad L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback guys!

    I've upped the ambient lighting on the map for now, my monitor is quite bright and I didn't realize how dark the map was. So far my main focus has been making sure the map plays well so lighting and detailing hasn't quite gotten the attention they deserve.

    I've also started a quite heavy rework of some parts of the map meaning the next version might take a while to finish up.

    I'm aware that some waves are longer than they should and I've been meaning to go through the missions and reduce bot counts or even remove sub-waves entirely depending on the situation. Doing this takes quite some time however as I have to sit through the entire missions to verify the pacing.

    By this I assume you mean the wheel of fate? If so the answer will unfortunately be no. Over the years I've been experimenting a lot with MvM and I've reached an important conclusion: Random events have no place in this gamemode.

    The wheel has a quite large effect on the players and the mission that uses the wheel have waves specifically set up to work well with the effect. Having the effect random would not only eliminate this possibility, it would also frustrate players if they get a bad card at a bad time, outside of their control.

    The success of the team should always depend on the skill and teamwork of the players and not on the luck of draw. If the players feel that the only way they can beat a wave is by getting a specific card they will simply get irritated and possibly abandon the mission if the random luck gods fail them.

    Not quite sure what you mean by this. Is having the icons more accurately describe what threats you're about to face a bad thing?

    With the redesign I'm doing a few of these areas are being remade, for the others I'll try to make it a bit more obvious they aren't accessible.

    Spells have been considered in the past but I decided to scrap the idea. Some of the spells have little to no use in MvM, some even cause issues, teleporting into giants comes to mind. Unless I find a way to control what spells are handed out I won't add spells. I really want to add spells tho, they fit so well thematically.

    Noted. The wave with those was finished only recently and have only been tested once. We had no problems with them but thinking back to it I was juggling them with airblasts, effectively preventing them from jumping about. Preferably the map should be beatable with any reasonable class setup.
     
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  10. UltimentM

    UltimentM L1: Registered

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    No, I mean that I think that it's pointless to have multiple icons for different robots. It's fine to have some custom icons in the map, but not to a point where every single type of robot has a different icon.

    Deferring robots individually is not a bad thing. But when the differences are minor?
     
  11. Werbad

    Werbad L1: Registered

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    Could you post some examples of bots where you think the differences are minor enough to not have a specific class icon? Most bots with custom icons have an icon because their behavior is different enough that I feel the players deserve to know this before the wave starts. The only exceptions I can think of are some melee based bots left behind from an older map version, but most of those aren't even used in the current missions.

    Previously the waves were all medieval themed with the bots using mostly melee or medieval weapons, like bows or crossbows. I changed this as it limited the waves too much but the class icons survived.