[WIP] PL_Great_Heights

toutfou

L3: Member
Sep 8, 2008
136
16
Some quick work done this morning, not 100% happy with the result, but it's something for me to refine later on... The Blu Spawn room has received a massive overhaul, the room you spawn in itself has been moved to help encourage players to take other exits, asides from this old ramp.

plgh_b3_b1.jpg


Is now:

plgh_b3_a1.jpg
 
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flubber

L4: Comfortable Member
Nov 16, 2007
171
35
Man we have been playing on the last release for too long, do you have an ETA?

if you need a quick beta testing on a full 24, don't hesitate...
 

toutfou

L3: Member
Sep 8, 2008
136
16
It'll be a while mate, still a lot of work to do/re-do and I'm now working fulltime again and still in the midst of international relocation :x But I'd be up for some pre-release tests, I'm in Hungary now too so I'd be able to join you guys as well :) I'll be in touch!
 

flubber

L4: Comfortable Member
Nov 16, 2007
171
35
It'll be a while mate, still a lot of work to do/re-do and I'm now working fulltime again and still in the midst of international relocation :x But I'd be up for some pre-release tests, I'm in Hungary now too so I'd be able to join you guys as well :) I'll be in touch!

Anytime, CPC servers are always open for beta test ;).
 

toutfou

L3: Member
Sep 8, 2008
136
16
@Flubber: I'm going to start working on some bug fixes now, perhaps we can organise a test for this time next week? I've added you on Steam.

Some more progress, pretty happy with how this area turned out, though I think I'll revisit it at some stage before the release as I'm not 100% certain its height fits too well in this area, I may shrink the front building build keep it taller at the back.

Before:
plgh_b3_b2.jpg



After
plgh_b3_a2.jpg


Closeup:
plgh_b3_a2a.jpg
 

flubber

L4: Comfortable Member
Nov 16, 2007
171
35
Whenever you want Toutfou, we'll see thru steam.
 

Xenesis

L1: Registered
Mar 8, 2009
3
1
Man, I like playing this map. It is a blast to play especially as defence.

That being said I think some specific areas of the map could probably be improved. Note that all these comments are from B2.

Stage 1: Overall this is just far too hard for Blu from what I've seen. If a Blu team can take stage 1 comfortably, it's very likely they'll win the map because their team is so much better than the other one. I've seen Stage 1 stall out far too many times in all honesty.

1-1: This is probably the biggest roadblock. The sentry location in this area is extremely solid (Just before the point) and life isn't made very easy for medics to build Ubercharge as there is a lot of empty space which makes them scout and sniperbait. Part of what I think makes the sentry spot so solid is that the attackers have to deal with defenders from both sides while pushing up.

1-2: This is a lot easier than 1-1, but it is ruled by soldiers and demomen. Pushing uphill against them with a height advantage is very tricky and they're quite good at fighting good numbers pushing up the cart. I think overall this part of the map would be made a lot friendlier for attack if the side door was opened up before the cart captured the forward point like it is in B2, but it's not bad overall.

1-3: The only real problem I feel with this point is that a sentry in the concrete house on the right of the track covers both the track and the side-entrance really well...it seems hard to take on the point when it's covered by the rest of it's team. Make flanking a bit easier and this point would be golden.

Stage 2: This one's a bit jarring. It's a bit more up and down in terms of pushing power.

2-1: This part honestly feels far too easy for the attackers. The defenders don't seem to have any good ways to cover the payload track with defensive classes or sentries, the attackers have lots of viable routes and free space and the defence takes an incredibly long time to get back to the point after respawning. Giving the defence a forward spawn or at least a super-shortcut route (a la Dustbowl 3-1 or Goldrush 2-1) and possibly some nice alcoves for sentries that cover the track would make this less of a gimme for Blu. It's especially odd considering how hard Stage 1 is.

2-2: This is the stuff of nightmares against a team with a competent engineer. That side gate that opens when you capture the point really needs to be opened beforehand, because until you get past it Pyros, scouts and spies are completely useless. Secondly, underwater sentries are absolute hell. One placed in the sideroom makes getting past almost impossible and it's quite possibly the hardest sentry spot I've ever seen against ubercharges, mainly because you can't see very well at all through surface boundaries of sky and water plus the pushback from a sentry while underwater is like when jumping so everyone gets flung out of the water or pinned against the wall to an untimely death.

Seriously, open the gate and remove the underwater sideroom so there are no good underwater engy spots. I see this point stall out a lot or at the best even a good team seems to lose a lot of time from this point. I hear a ton of complaining about this particular point from players on the server, it seems to be a personal bugbear for most people who play the map.

2-3: This is a pretty tough fortress to crack. It'd almost be suitable for a finale point if I must say. There isn't too much you could do to this point as is, but it seems like that it's very easy for the defence to push the offence back and make them lose ground. In both Gold Rush and Badwater, for the final, defensible points it's always a challenge to push the line up to about halfway to the point but once you get there it seems much easier to hold it. Then once the turtle is cracked Blu can cap the point very quickly. The problem with this point is that you get pushed back to the start of the point too easily. I'm not really sure how you could easily rectify that though...maybe making your underground side route more attractive (possibly with more health/ammo or something). I'm not really sure about this one.

Stage 3: I honestly can't give too much of a comprehensive opinion on this part, but it seems well balanced possibly even biased towards the attackers...but I can't really say because I've only actually had the pleasure of playing Stage 3 on both sides once.

But still, it is a good looking and quite playable map for the most part. I can't wait to see this polished up and improved. :)
 

toutfou

L3: Member
Sep 8, 2008
136
16
1-1: This is probably the biggest roadblock. The sentry location in this area is extremely solid (Just before the point) and life isn't made very easy for medics to build Ubercharge as there is a lot of empty space which makes them scout and sniperbait. Part of what I think makes the sentry spot so solid is that the attackers have to deal with defenders from both sides while pushing up.

Yeah this spot is a touch too tough. Flubbers deathmaps show a major glow just around this corner. Part of the problem I had been witnessing was to do with players just taking the ramp exit from Blu spawn, dropping down and mindlessly running around the corner. I've moved the spawn room so that this ramp becomes less of an option, which should give players more time to get to the battlefield and assess whats going on, where to attack from and who's in front of them. I'm interested to see how this helps organisation in taking out sentries.

Also by adding the windows to Blu Spawn, gives snipers a bit more security in eliminating distant threats.

1-2: This is a lot easier than 1-1, but it is ruled by soldiers and demomen. Pushing uphill against them with a height advantage is very tricky and they're quite good at fighting good numbers pushing up the cart. I think overall this part of the map would be made a lot friendlier for attack if the side door was opened up before the cart captured the forward point like it is in B2, but it's not bad overall.

I'm yet to look at this area (it's next!), but it is pretty friendly for Demo and Soldier defense, but there are numerous side paths to get you a bit higher up. It's easy for scouts/demo/soldiers of the offensive side to flank around the back also.

1-3: The only real problem I feel with this point is that a sentry in the concrete house on the right of the track covers both the track and the side-entrance really well...it seems hard to take on the point when it's covered by the rest of it's team. Make flanking a bit easier and this point would be golden.

Interesting :) I haven't seen this sentry spot being used before. Most critical is the sentry position on the cargo crates, which is definitely being removed! ;) But I could see how this spot would be tough also, especially as I have already removed the upper path access.

2-1: This part honestly feels far too easy for the attackers. The defenders don't seem to have any good ways to cover the payload track with defensive classes or sentries, the attackers have lots of viable routes and free space and the defence takes an incredibly long time to get back to the point after respawning. Giving the defence a forward spawn or at least a super-shortcut route (a la Dustbowl 3-1 or Goldrush 2-1) and possibly some nice alcoves for sentries that cover the track would make this less of a gimme for Blu. It's especially odd considering how hard Stage 1 is.

Good points! I'm not too sure about a forward spawn, but I'll see what could be included with a quicker path of some sort. I have to redo the ending of this area so perhaps I can open up something when I begin doing that.

2-2: This is the stuff of nightmares against a team with a competent engineer. That side gate that opens when you capture the point really needs to be opened beforehand, because until you get past it Pyros, scouts and spies are completely useless. Secondly, underwater sentries are absolute hell. One placed in the sideroom makes getting past almost impossible and it's quite possibly the hardest sentry spot I've ever seen against ubercharges, mainly because you can't see very well at all through surface boundaries of sky and water plus the pushback from a sentry while underwater is like when jumping so everyone gets flung out of the water or pinned against the wall to an untimely death.

Agree and disagree here :) I've been able to take some sentries out relatively easy as soldier/demo by remaining above water and shooting down, or flanking around back. There are some frustrating times but I've seen very few complete stalls on this choke point.

That being said though, as I start tying the level into a tighter theme, underwater path seems more unrealistic, so I may remove the water altogether and redo that area with some other threat such as a mine to fall down. TBD :)


2-3: This is a pretty tough fortress to crack. It'd almost be suitable for a finale point if I must say. There isn't too much you could do to this point as is, but it seems like that it's very easy for the defence to push the offence back and make them lose ground. In both Gold Rush and Badwater, for the final, defensible points it's always a challenge to push the line up to about halfway to the point but once you get there it seems much easier to hold it. Then once the turtle is cracked Blu can cap the point very quickly. The problem with this point is that you get pushed back to the start of the point too easily. I'm not really sure how you could easily rectify that though...maybe making your underground side route more attractive (possibly with more health/ammo or something). I'm not really sure about this one.

I'm looking to make the upper path open up right onto the final cap area, so that Blu have a chance to see whats around the corner, before committing themselves to move around it. Aside from that, I haven't had too many other thoughts, but it will also depend on the redesign of round 3, as it may change the spawn area of R2.

Stage 3: I honestly can't give too much of a comprehensive opinion on this part, but it seems well balanced possibly even biased towards the attackers...but I can't really say because I've only actually had the pleasure of playing Stage 3 on both sides once.

What do you think of the length? Some players prefer to see it a bit lengthier but I kind of like it in its small nature, it takes less time to conquer but because of its compact design it can feel more intense. Either way, the entire R3 will be redesigned to make it fit within the rest of the changes. I have some exciting ideas and I really want to keep the player ragdolls exploding back into R1 when the finale is reached :)

But still, it is a good looking and quite playable map for the most part. I can't wait to see this polished up and improved. :)

Cheers :) Great to have some constructive feedback!
 
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