PL Venice RC3

[TanookiSuit3]

TanookiSuit3 submitted a new resource:

Venice - A single-stage payload map set in the historic isles of Venice.

Celebrate the holidayest month of the year: MAY, with Venice.

Better late than never, Venice is a single-stage payload map set on the historic island of Venice.

Blu team must push the payload through the canals, the shopping district, the village, and finally the terrace palace.

Disclaimer: We cannot guarantee safety of mercenaries staying in the water too long.

Read more about this resource...

 

[TanookiSuit3]

TanookiSuit3 updated Venice with a new update entry:

A7

- Fixed fog & water visuals
- Added new exit for first Blu spawn
- Spawn doors no longer open for the wrong team
- Lighting improvements
- Lots of bug fixes

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[TanookiSuit3]

TanookiSuit3 updated Venice with a new update entry:

RC1 - Big Gameplay and Art Changes

- Moved exit and added a second exit out of second Blu spawn (after taking point B)
- Added stairs into raised room outside first Blu spawn
- Added new route connecting two buildings near point B
- Allowed access to the roof for all classes on building near point B
- Removed lots of railings to improve player movement
- Moved hut outside first Blu spawn to cover up sightlines
- Extended final Blu spawn and pushed spawns back
- Decreased the number of wooden planks in canals
- Tweaked first...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Boonie]

blue_spawn_2 needs a func_respawnroom, you can build in most places.

Out of map


Miss-aligned clips (can stand/build up here)

 

[Tumby]

Are you aware of our feedback plugin? Check this page (https://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/pl_venice_rc1/) to see what people have to say about the map while they played it. Also consider downloading the .demo file, which is an ingame recording of the playtest. Note that a lot of feedback is left in voice chat, so it's a REALLY good idea to download the demo and watch it.
To watch a demo recording, download it and place it in your tf folder (Steam\steamapps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf), then type "playdemo <name of demo file>" in the ingame console. Note that you can rename the demo file to whatever you want, which can make it easier to organize and play the correct file. Use "voice_enable 1" to enable voice chat, so that you don't miss any discussion and feedback. Use "demoui" or "demoui2" to skip ahead or pause the recording, but you can't move around while the ui is open. You will need to press spacebar about 3 times before you can move around in freecam.

 

[TanookiSuit3]

TanookiSuit3 updated Venice with a new update entry:

RC2 - Gameplay and Polish

- Opened up a lot of areas more
- Added new route near Point C
- Fixed payload moving forwards after rolling back into slope near the final Point
- Red team are now teleported instead of killed in old spawn rooms when a Point is captured
- Blu team no longer get trapped in old spawn rooms after a point is captured
- Reduced the amount of time for Blu team gained by capturing Points
- Widened a room near Point B
- Altered the light source angle
- Fixed soundscape triggers in some areas
-...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[TanookiSuit3]

TanookiSuit3 updated Venice with a new update entry:

RC3 - Tweaked Lighting and Polish

- Made lighting more blue (less yellow) and sun placement lower
- Improved lighting on window models
- Added wall on left side of first blu spawn to block vis
- Added hazard strips along the track to the first checkpoint
- Tweaked boat

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Miki]

Congrats on getting accepted. I played Venice on Casual with people and offline with bots, it has an ambitious urban theme but feels distinctly community made with gritty textures and sparse detailing at gamespace height. I found some issues just running around, notably the nav mesh seems to have been built using an older version. Sure, few people are going to play this with bots, but they are broken when just rebuilding the nav mesh could be enough. I have cl_showpos 1 on the top right in most of these screenshots, so you can plug those numbers into Hammer.


BLU spawn bots can't move without a nav mesh here (they can't go upstairs either).

Seems like a nodraw face in this room.

I believe this is 2nd spawn for BLU, and the bots try to leave through the resupply locker (again, outdated nav mesh)

This painting is floating from the wall near 2nd.

Perch point by BLU 1st spawn.

Nonsolid telephone pole. Also, I thought jumping behind this fence onto a boat was a glitch, but apparently it's intentional. It makes a good spot to sneak a teleporter, but does come across as odd.

This no entry texture at BLU spawn could just be one sign instead of 4.

You can build above BLU spawn after the setup doors open. Unlikely to happen, but it's possible with a Wrangler jump from this spot.

There may likely be more issues, but these are only a couple I found running around. I like the map, the scrolling Manhattan water looks cool and the Venice theme was executed fairly well given how much effort it must have taken from scratch.

 

[floofycatto]

purple = blu's spawn doors
black = map walls/bariers
red = payload line
green = sightlines

here's some venice first stage fixes I just thought of off the top my head, issues with current venice 1st is a huge sightline to fix, taking up what looks like 70-80% of the first point, sniper is just hard to fight against in general at this range, and my fixes intend to allow other classes to get closer to the sniper to have a chance to get em out of their perch, this sightline on the first fix blu basically now has more flanks to use to avoid the sightline, kill the sniper, and have a chance to push the cart uninterrupted, the flank on the left now goes all the way to the sightline so the sniper has to watch that other side too, which can also give blue a chance to push the cart while the sniper is distracted, I also opened up the right flank so there's not just one flank option for that specific sightline (idk if that right flank is available when in a match, but if it is then good, I just wanted to put it here just incase it isnt because it wasnt while I was doing a noclip look around of the map) the 2nd fix idea is more of a fix the problem at the root solution where the map is divided into more sections, instead of an upside down L its now 2 upside down Ls to get to the point, but the distance to get to the cart remains the same, youre essentially just cutting the map in half so the sniper has to be closer to get anything done, making it easier to go and get them outta their perch, theoritically you wouldn't need the flanks if it was done this way so I just didnt add them

note that obviously the walls dont have to be copied one for one but i just drew until i felt like i got the point across, the main issue is blu pushing the objective and the entrances to flanks and where they should lead

 

[Ismaciodismorphus]

These buildings in the skybox look like they are floating on the water i think a brush with a stone texture should be placed below then and the buildings moved up so it looks right.

 

[Miki]

Thanks for updating the map, I ran around offline and played it ingame, and a lot of people seemed to dislike the changes.

The nav mesh is still broken and based on an outdated version. Again, it's a small thing most may not use, but it's a 1 minute fix to delete and rebuild it with even just the auto nav_generate command.

2nd point, there's a roof you can stand on, I put coords on in the top right.

Final point has an invisible door in RED spawn that makes noise here, maybe a duplicate error?


These control point signs beside last should both be red given BLU doesn't own final yet.

That weird rocket jump attic near 2nd has some building peaking under the ceiling.


This observer point might have been from last version, and I think it looks weird pointing at a random wall.

My initial observations and feedback about the update:
I think the changes made the map worse, and several people were vocal about it on the servers I played. They accentuated the map's shortcomings and took away many enjoyable parts. I'm sad about this because I found myself wanting to now avoid the map, whereas before I liked to have it checked on. I think it's because 1st and 4th are the most controversial areas, with the other 2 more forgettable (3rd usually is a freebie).

1. 1st BLU spawn
I called this the bowling alley before, now it splits the team into 2 separate rooms and it has a strange flow. I find it less enjoyable, and without sinking my teeth into the issue, I think it comes from the disorganized team fight and it being unclear where everyone is or even where the cart is.

2. New textures
Visually, the map still has a full washing machine of gray, but the new brick textures look a little better I suppose.
I don't expect a huge visual makeover, and my opinion visually hasn't changed.

3. Final flank stairs being removed made final much harder to push.
I think you didn't like how it detracted flow away from the right side of this point, so you axed it. However, this leaves BLU only 2 chokes to push through with a very long travel time. People didn't like it and found it heavily disadvantaged BLU. How to fix this? Maybe add another spawn point by the water at 2nd, so BLU can flow naturally to your intended chokepoint (the tracks) while keeping the flank stairs. Maybe lower that raised bridge at 2nd you have once 3rd is capped. I drew a quick flow chart showcasing this:

Overall: I feel like Venice was not ready to be accepted into TF2 and needed much more time in the playtesting oven. And again, it's unfortunate these latest changes made the map worse for me and I feel inclined to avoid Venice when I liked to play it before.

 

[Billo]

Hi there!

After playing venice a couple of times I come here to provide feedback for the map. It sucks that people view venice as the "worst" of the bunch but it doesnt have to be this way. I thought of a few ways to improve the map. As the creator of pl_eruption which is getting played in competitive as of late I feel like my feedback has value. I learned a ton from this map and I hope I can help you out!
Something that I didn't enjoy about the map is how much it encourages spam and the long sightlines. However I will try to focus on other stuff while providing solutions!

Firstly let's talk about the gameplay which is the most important.
---Point A---- (my favourite point)

There is nowhere to get cover in A if you want to avoid a sniper. The fences are see-through so a sniper can easily predict where I am going. There are only a few planks here and there in the main tracks area.

this spawn exit is problematic In my opinion. I think reworking the exit or getting rid of this wall would help.

this spawn is built a lot better.

I feel like this could be a potentially interesting flank since it's on the lowground making anyone using it hidden from the players above. (just an idea)

I suppose this is the "Main Hold" of A. Where you want red to hold more. However in practice I haven't seen this area getting used at all. Perhaps the players aren't aware of it. But I like the idea.

the sightlines here are also rather long and I feel like you could replace the fences with something more visually appealing.

so here my idea would be to improve the red hold while making it more obvious to set up there. You can give Blu more cover to push the cart till the bridge. Now the nest is stronger for Red you extend the balcony near the bridge like I show to give blu a way to counter is from a closer angle. You still have more far away angles too. If that's not enough you can also use this "new flank" I proposed. It's not necessary though. Just an idea. You can lower the roof in the new and improved nest area so red can get on top and use it similar to badwater. I want to note that you can keep/change any ideas I have. I am explaining how I would have done it. As the map creator, you know your work better than I do.

This area on the back could also keep this area in check if it gets too powerful.

---Point B and C----
Now for those 2 points I will sound a little hursh but I feel like apart from this area here:

The rest were an afterthought. Owing to the fact that the points are either flat
Or they use the same ideas as before as well as buildings and designs.

Or in general feel the same. Point A feels unique. Point C feels like Point B again.

In addition I have no idea where to stand or hold the point in C

Everywhere I go I am exposed there is next to zero cover making the point uncomfortable to play. You can also shoot through the fences on the bridge.
I would strongly advise you to rework some areas to allow for more clear indication of where to set-up and hold. As well as provide more cover. Additionally I believe that C needs a landmark. Point A has the cannals, Point B has the bridges, Point C has....? More bridges? When I first played the map I felt lost, every area looks the same I thought.

A few landmarks that you can take inspiration from area these for instance.
For B and C I don't have much that I can help you with. I don't have a couple of solutions here apart from this:

I think Height Varation in this point needs to happen, B could be kept the same but C needs changes. But if I had to change something about C, it would be to give it more cover (Blue lines) and small boats to break the sightlines and provide cover for the fights and allow for Spies to climb up to certain areas. Furthermore I added a new building/connector on C which connects the 2 calconies. You could even give it windows but I am not sure about that. The idea would be to connect the hold areas for Red so as to allow for better and more obvious places to hold and setup.

---Point D---
For last I honestly think there was no plan for it at all.

the track path is narrow which encourages spam (and I don't feel like pushing to last. I would just die).
the only highground route for Blu was removed.

The interior design is all over the place


and the health and ammo packs are an after-thought.
For the finale something more grande could work

Using the last reference Imagine as a way to redesign D this is what I thought of:

obviously it's not the best idea ever. But it's a quick sketch of how everything you have so far could connect to the new Larkmark. Something to make Venice a little more memorable. I also added colors to help illustrate My ideas. But Purple are the buildings and the grey is outdoor areas.

Lastly I would like to touch uppon the lighting and colors of the map. For a map called Venice it's really grey.
When I think of Venice I think something like that:

of course the arguement can be made that having too many colors would confuse the players even more but I think knowing where and when to use the colors would help a ton. Also the mood of the map is also too saturated for some reason. Making the map sunnier would help imo a lot more. Anyways that's what I got to say.

I spent more than an hour providing you with this feedback because I want to see this map being one of my favourites and not just a map that I might play once a year. It has great potential and I would love to see it succeed and get loved from the community!
Hope I managed to help you guys out and good luck with the map!
Thanks!

 

[Tick]

hi! i found some out of bounds spots that i wanted to make sure you're aware of.

cords: 7960 3140 3244
there's no player clip on top of this building which allows player jump out of the map

View: https://youtu.be/yg6I3N5A9Gw

cords: 8850 8033 2020
the clip brush here dosint go all the way to the ground here allowing engies to build under it and the one behind it

 

[JimWood]

Hi there!

After playing venice a couple of times I come here to provide feedback for the map. It sucks that people view venice as the "worst" of the bunch but it doesnt have to be this way. I thought of a few ways to improve the map. As the creator of pl_eruption which is getting played in competitive as of late I feel like my feedback has value. I learned a ton from this map and I hope I can help you out!
Something that I didn't enjoy about the map is how much it encourages spam and the long sightlines. However I will try to focus on other stuff while providing solutions!

Firstly let's talk about the gameplay which is the most important.
---Point A---- (my favourite point)

There is nowhere to get cover in A if you want to avoid a sniper. The fences are see-through so a sniper can easily predict where I am going. There are only a few planks here and there in the main tracks area.

this spawn exit is problematic In my opinion. I think reworking the exit or getting rid of this wall would help.

this spawn is built a lot better.

I feel like this could be a potentially interesting flank since it's on the lowground making anyone using it hidden from the players above. (just an idea)

I suppose this is the "Main Hold" of A. Where you want red to hold more. However in practice I haven't seen this area getting used at all. Perhaps the players aren't aware of it. But I like the idea.

the sightlines here are also rather long and I feel like you could replace the fences with something more visually appealing.

so here my idea would be to improve the red hold while making it more obvious to set up there. You can give Blu more cover to push the cart till the bridge. Now the nest is stronger for Red you extend the balcony near the bridge like I show to give blu a way to counter is from a closer angle. You still have more far away angles too. If that's not enough you can also use this "new flank" I proposed. It's not necessary though. Just an idea. You can lower the roof in the new and improved nest area so red can get on top and use it similar to badwater. I want to note that you can keep/change any ideas I have. I am explaining how I would have done it. As the map creator, you know your work better than I do.

This area on the back could also keep this area in check if it gets too powerful.

---Point B and C----
Now for those 2 points I will sound a little hursh but I feel like apart from this area here:

The rest were an afterthought. Owing to the fact that the points are either flat
Or they use the same ideas as before as well as buildings and designs.

Or in general feel the same. Point A feels unique. Point C feels like Point B again.

In addition I have no idea where to stand or hold the point in C

Everywhere I go I am exposed there is next to zero cover making the point uncomfortable to play. You can also shoot through the fences on the bridge.
I would strongly advise you to rework some areas to allow for more clear indication of where to set-up and hold. As well as provide more cover. Additionally I believe that C needs a landmark. Point A has the cannals, Point B has the bridges, Point C has....? More bridges? When I first played the map I felt lost, every area looks the same I thought.

A few landmarks that you can take inspiration from area these for instance.
For B and C I don't have much that I can help you with. I don't have a couple of solutions here apart from this:

I think Height Varation in this point needs to happen, B could be kept the same but C needs changes. But if I had to change something about C, it would be to give it more cover (Blue lines) and small boats to break the sightlines and provide cover for the fights and allow for Spies to climb up to certain areas. Furthermore I added a new building/connector on C which connects the 2 calconies. You could even give it windows but I am not sure about that. The idea would be to connect the hold areas for Red so as to allow for better and more obvious places to hold and setup.

---Point D---
For last I honestly think there was no plan for it at all.

the track path is narrow which encourages spam (and I don't feel like pushing to last. I would just die).
the only highground route for Blu was removed.

The interior design is all over the place


and the health and ammo packs are an after-thought.
For the finale something more grande could work

Using the last reference Imagine as a way to redesign D this is what I thought of:

obviously it's not the best idea ever. But it's a quick sketch of how everything you have so far could connect to the new Larkmark. Something to make Venice a little more memorable. I also added colors to help illustrate My ideas. But Purple are the buildings and the grey is outdoor areas.

Lastly I would like to touch uppon the lighting and colors of the map. For a map called Venice it's really grey.
When I think of Venice I think something like that:

of course the arguement can be made that having too many colors would confuse the players even more but I think knowing where and when to use the colors would help a ton. Also the mood of the map is also too saturated for some reason. Making the map sunnier would help imo a lot more. Anyways that's what I got to say.

I spent more than an hour providing you with this feedback because I want to see this map being one of my favourites and not just a map that I might play once a year. It has great potential and I would love to see it succeed and get loved from the community!
Hope I managed to help you guys out and good luck with the map!
Thanks!

Thank you for all of this, we'll take it into account for future updates! Appreciate it.

 

[Ms. Wizard <|:)]

I love the theme of this map so much!!! Could you please please please release the assets you used to make it? I desperately want to see more maps using this aesthetic, and I'd be extremely ecstatic if you shared your work with the mapping community!