CTF Turbine re-artpass Alpha 6

[Aki]

This might go a little off-topic, but there was a solid one posted on the SPUF a while back that I liked.

Mainly because it gives

-A way to get into the basement without going through/past the hayloft..

-A way to get *out* of the basement without going through/past the hayloft.

-Opens up a balcony overlooking the flag room that lets you clear sentry nests a little easier.

-Alternate exit to the hayloft spawn.

It wasn't perfect (the exit required a bit of swimming to dump you out into the sewer, and it was a bit confusing if you never played the map before), but it was definitely a step in a direction.

Back to the Turbine edit, it's definitely looking good. Amazing what you can do when you have "proper" (as far as Hammer can be called) tools instead of just hacked together tools.

You're describing 2Fort Engie Power. The problems with that map are just as severe as normal 2Fort, if not more so

1) Red has a huge advantage for it's snipers up on the roof because of the shape of the roof.

2) Once the map's been played awhile all the action (and I do mean *all* the action) gets diverted to the sewer route into the intel.

3) The engie gallery spot looks clever but it's very weak - a scout can grab the intel and get out of the gun's firing line before it can react.

4) Engies are forced to camp the intel, whereas in 2Fort normal they have a couple other choke points to choose from in setting up defenses and don't have to stay back. If the other team goes defensive then playing an engie becomes a very, very boring proposition.

5) Scouts can reach the enemy intel before any other class on the defending team - defending engies can get there just in time to fight them, which is a losing proposition.

There are a lot of variants on 2Fort Engie power to address these issues - 2Fort Egypt (reskinning as Egypt for example), with mixed degrees of success. I've played with 2Fort rebuilds myself a few times, ultimately I got bored with it because it's a very crowded market.

 

[Wilson]

Terr's 2fort_Revamp is only decent 2fort edit out there.

 

[Penguin]

Might I suggest using a less-cracked concrete for the outside area? It is noticeably repetitive.

 

[Pocket]

OK, so here's the deal: I got tired of waiting to think up ideas for the unfinished portion of the map and just built a quick-and-dirty devtextured section to test the mechanics for now. After I've compiled what I have, I'm going to put it up for download as an alpha so people can play around on it and see what they think so far.

 

[PMAvers]

Terr's 2fort_Revamp is only decent 2fort edit out there.

Yup, that's the one. It never got updated past b3, did it?

 

[Pocket]

A1 (with very temporary dev-textured upper hallways and spawns and very unfinished intel rooms) released.

 

[Miauw62]

I suggested this to my server admin recently, because we just opend a turbine server, he said we may do it when the server gets a bit more popular (and when this map is sorted out properly, but i dont doubt that that will happen)

 

[Pocket]

Bump in case anyone had more comments from today's test besides the stuff in the feedback nodes.

Wilson, you said that Turbine's mid "sucks". Anything specific you have a problem with?

 

[tyler]

Nah, he just says that.

 

[Wilson]

It is boring as hell.
There is two stairs, two containers and few smaller things between container and that's it, unless you are scout or soldier/demoman, there isn't much for you there.

 

[Freyja]

The mid needs a bridge.

Bridges make any map instantly more interesting.

Look at doublecross. That map has TWO bridges and it's the best CTF map there is.

 

[Deodorant]

The mid needs a bridge.

Bridges make any map instantly more interesting.

Look at doublecross. That map has TWO bridges and it's the best CTF map there is.

Ah, so that's why everyone loves 2fort?

 

[Freyja]

That's right! That bridge makes 2fort. You take away the bridge, no more 2fort.

 

[Trotim]

Changing mid even more is a bad idea. This "re-artpass" is already taking quite some liberties by changing vents and incorporating Turbine_pro stuff, and as there's no simple "fix" to mid changing it will only screw things up. Its mid has been fine for like three years.

 

[MangyCarface]

This map/exercise is neat because of how closely you've followed the original geometry- stray too far and it's more like, why not just make a new map entirely? I think you've overstepped the scope by making that balcony above the intel. This is a completely different gameplay situation than the dropdown had been

 

[Pocket]

The idea behind that (and the added route to the raised platform) is to make common turtling spots easier to counter. I won't pretend that Turbine isn't still prone to annoying stalemates, and if people are going to play my version, they're going to need a better reason than "it looks prettier."

Again, I'm likening this to the changes Valve made to its own TFC maps during development of TF2, as well as the tweaks that have been made to maps post-release to fix gameplay issues (Granary's additional route and relocating Yukon's mid point come to mind). I ask myself, "If the original were an alpha and is creator were still working on it, what might he have added/changed?" I've actually had more ideas for layout changes that I've nixed because it would have messed with the status quo too much.

 

[ForbiddenDonut]

Beautiful work, steve. This might actually change my mind about leaving every turbine I get into.

 

[MangyCarface]

But that's a huge change, if you think about it; it's a new defensive overlook w/ a sentry, or as a demo; it also severely weakens defenses waiting below. In another location it'd be unnoteworthy, but overlooking the central goal of the map, I worry. I'm sure you'll figure out what's best for this, just saying.

 

[Pocket]

See, that's the kind of feedback I've been looking for. I hadn't considered the possibility of using the modified dropdown for defense. I'm going to jump on a 24/7 turbine_pro server right now and see if I can't gather some useful data about that.

 

[PMAvers]

Just a random thought (dunno if there's a newer version than the original release), but do the vents have to be...

...well, vents? Something never really felt right about crawling around in them.