SleepKiller's Cutting(Blunt) Edge Map Analysis

Discussion in 'Tutorials & Resources' started by SleepKiller, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. SleepKiller

    SleepKiller L1: Registered

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    I like to look and analyse things, sometimes I like to write down my thoughts on those things in an incoherent manner. Here are some things I wrote about TF2 map design. Check it out if you like the subject and maybe if you liked it tell and I it may inspire me to speed up the rate I write these at. (Or tell me in a vexatious manner how wrong I am about something as well if you like, discussion is fun.)

    First up is something I wrote a few months ago. It discusses and looks at spawn design in KOTH maps in TF2. Now before you go and read it you should know that I am pretty hard on Harvest and Suijin in this. If that sounds like something you may disagree with and feel strongly about the design of those maps, maybe give this a skip. Or better yet read it and then argue your points with me (in a civil manner of course).

    That said both Harvest and Suijin are very well made maps and Suijin is, in my opinion of course, the best produced map in the game. And anything bad I say about them is not meant to be an attack against the makers of those maps (although I acknowledge that it indirectly will be and I apologize for that.)

    Not put off yet? Surprising.

    KOTH Spawn Design in TF2

    KOTH not really your thing? How about Payload? Here is a semi-abstract analysis on Badwater's design

    PL Design Analysis, Part I - Badwater

    Future parts of PL Design Analysis coming to a Dropbox near you, Valve Time.

    As a final note I didn't really write these with the intention of sharing them publicly so some mistakes in grammar or structure will be present definitely. But I decided that they may prove useful to some other people other there and figured why not. Just ignore my writing ability please.
     
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  2. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

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    I find some of your points rely too much on theory and set up situations that would never actually happen in-game. For example, demomen being able to shoot over the divider in Sawmill's spawn is a complete non-issue because taking position that close to the spawn door is guaranteed to get the demo killed.
     
  3. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    You don't have to apologise, this is a forum largely based around criticizing and creating maps (and helping others to do those two). As long as you don't say "Frejya is stupid and ugly and the map sucks balls", then nobody will really mind.
     
  4. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    You compliment Lakeside on having good spawn exits because you can see sticky traps... yet you didn't mention that people can camp both exits by simply looking through one of the doors. Come on.
     
  5. SleepKiller

    SleepKiller L1: Registered

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    Hey thanks for your thoughts, you're however operating off two assumptions yourself there however.

    Firstly you are assuming that teams will always be balanced. Which they won't.

    Secondly you are assuming that newer players would be smart enough to not go out the top exit to challenge the Demoman (who could easily land two pipes on anyone trying to leave). Which they wouldn't be.

    Thinking "Well it's unlikely to happen in a game" is a great way to create a map that isn't fun. No matter how unlikely something may be if it could be a problem in some circumstance you should fix it. (Since someone, at some point will exploit and cause someone else to have a very bad time.) We want maps to be as fun as possible right? Why leave something in that only has the potential for exploitation when it would take us a couple minutes to fix?

    Maybe, I personally just dislike criticizing other people's hard work. Hence the apology whenever I do.

    Indeed you got me there, that is something I definitely should have mentioned that. My reason for declaring Lakeside to be the best is to do with the information it provides players, leading them feel like they were treated fairly and could've done something different to survive. (Something key to any good TF2 map.) Lakeside is by no means perfect and I perhaps should iterated on that a bit more, that is my bad. But the lessons to be learned from it about giving players information and treating them in a fair manner are still good and outweigh it's bad things (when compared to most other stock maps) in my opinion.

    Either way as I conclude you shouldn't just copy Viaduct's or Lakeside's spawn anyway and rather you should simply take lessons from them. In the same way there are important lessons to be learned from the other maps I talked about.