CTF Shad

waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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http://www.mediafire.com/?2k7vy7vz9tfk6lz

Pugged your map tonight, it was really chaotic. A lot of people had difficulty finding their way around, they requested that you use more team colored dev textures on the respective sides. Also, your doors are broken, sometimes they won't open, sometimes people get stuck in them; you can apparently open the doors by taunting, though, if you're stuck. You should also probably make the lower spawn exit door open sideways rather than raise up since it makes an invisible "ledge" above the door when the door is open that can be really annoying to get stuck on.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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nah, i mirrored the doors and just changed the filter name (smart right?) i guess i'll make the bottom doors open down

i've opened the map up a bit in a4 already (should somewhat help with navigation). im really unsure about defending B. putting an intel on a spire and it's location seems kind of silly. really makes you have to babysit the intel. will probably eventually redo B. A and C, eh, alright i guess. any feedback on the layout/gamemode? seemed like, yeah, no one really knew what they were doing + were confused.
 
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Aug 23, 2008
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One problem I noticed: as a defending team, if you are pushed back to one intel, as soon as a scout grabs the intel you lose. You have to sit around and wait for him to cap, but you've still lost. No way to block the cap, or intercept the target (a scout moves just as fast as another scout so you can't catch up). I mean, I guess that could be what your going for, but it sure seems a bit dissapointing to not be able to stay in the game. It would be like someone jumping on last of badlands, and you just instantly lose. No chance to det, no chance to block the capture, etc.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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i suppose there could be like a spot in the middle to cap, but the gametype is already confusing enough. might make it a bit too confusing.

one thing i noticed was how OP that upper route (one that goes above A) was due to the cover (with the sign). removed that. no more roof either. yay rocketjumping.
 
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tyler

aa
Sep 11, 2013
5,102
4,621
I don't think that's a problem with this map or CSF any more than it's a problem with regular CTF. Comparing it to Badlands in terms of mechanics is the wrong way to go. It's similar a bit geometrically but likening it to a push map is a straw man.
 
Aug 23, 2008
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I don't think that's a problem with this map or CSF any more than it's a problem with regular CTF. Comparing it to Badlands in terms of mechanics is the wrong way to go. It's similar a bit geometrically but likening it to a push map is a straw man.

We were playing it in 6v6? So i compared it to a map that gets lots of plya in 6v6? I didn't mean anything else other than that. It would suck if badlands was set up where if you just got to last you won was what I was trying to say. Badlands, and 5cp maps in general, are really awesome because you can push out from last and manage to regain ground. With this map thats not possible, and its not possible for multiple reasons, which kinda leads to a bit of a stalematey environment.
 

tyler

aa
Sep 11, 2013
5,102
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I guess that's fair, but you ought to compare it to a CTF map that gets played in 6s a lot. But now that I say that I don't know if CTF is played in 6s anymore.
 
Aug 23, 2008
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I guess that's fair, but you ought to compare it to a CTF map that gets played in 6s a lot. But now that I say that I don't know if CTF is played in 6s anymore.

It isn't really. Turbine was the only real CTF map that gets any real play time, and the gamemode they played with it is quite a bit different than on a pub server. In comp, you try and get as many caps as you can in 30 or so minutes. The basic idea being that if you do get far behind, you can still bring the score closer by chaining together several captures.

Euros still play turbine, but they play turbine pro and they use a different game mode. Basicallly, you have 2-3 10 minute segments. The team that manages to get more caps (or gets 5 first) in a round wins that round, and the team that wins best 2 out of 3 wins the match.

CTF doesn't get played in ESEA right now for a couple of reasons:

1) comp players complained about it ( frowny face)

2) the 30 minute timer with unlimited caps could lead to some abuse. Basically, each capture was considered a round for a team. What that meant, is if you played against a team that was going to drop anyway (tired of playing, no chance of playoffs) but you were going to continue on, you could just sit there and get as many captures in 30 minutes as possible, which would screw up your tiebreakers and make you more likely to get into the playoffs over another team.

3) Only one map to choose from, turbine. Yah, there are other ctf maps that might work, but with it being such a niche category (comp ctf), the most familiar one is likely to be the only one under consideration. And, turbine has some really painful problems in the middle of the map, which lead to quite a few stalematey situations. Only three entrances, all three of which can be locked down super easily.

Also Prestige, just to clarify, my main problem had to do with the final capture being so hard to stop. Putting the capture point in the middle of the map doesn't seem like it would solve that problem, as you still can't intercept the flag carrier before they cap (if anything that would be worse, because the enemy team has much less distance to cover once they get it out of the base). The only real solution I could think of would be to provide a path that overlooks other parts of the map so you can intercept from on high, but if you do that chances are the scout can just use that same path to get home faster.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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i guess i misunderstood you. tried to organize the intels into a triangle like badlands and gullywash which is kind of silly now that i think about it (was trying to prevent those nasty C vs. C stalemates seen in retreat). now B feels roughly as far to walk to as C does. ;)

what to do, what to do.
 

nik

L12: Fabulous Member
Aug 14, 2009
987
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The old prince still lives at home.
 

Sergis

L666: ])oo]v[
aa
Jul 22, 2009
1,874
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some stuff i believe to be beneficial
might repeat some of my !gfs but i dont care

ctf_shadlands_a30000.jpg

this center area feels too tight for a center area. badlands is way wider.

ctf_shadlands_a30001.jpg

you could try cutting out some space here for a wider and more comfortable fighting area

ctf_shadlands_a30002%20-%20Copy.jpg

regarding my fb about killing walls - when players dont have a wall up in their face all the time, maps feel much better

ctf_shadlands_a30003.jpg

fuck corridors, cut this out to make it a room

ctf_shadlands_a30004.jpg

setup gates here would work nicely if you choose to use them. setup time should be 30 or so seconds i think. your suggested 10 seconds would be too little making setup redundant and full 60 secs only if you want l3 sentries to be up at the first flag. also giving players some time to run around the base would help against them getting lost later

ctf_shadlands_a30005.jpg

i think you should put a C sign here

ctf_shadlands_a30006.jpg

this window is fucking awkward to shoot anyone. i disapprove of the idea. if you really want this "i can shoot you but i cant reach you" thing i think a longer window like in ctf coret of ut99 would work better
coret.png


ctf_shadlands_a30007.jpg

put the goddamn overlays under the pickups. at least temporary ones. so the map doesnt seem like it has 0 health when actually its about to respawn

ctf_shadlands_a30008.jpg

this column makes an otherwise alright room narrow and convoluted
 
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Mar 23, 2010
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good feedback sergis. okay i was struggling w/ B for the longest time, but i think i have something acceptable. trying to do something somewhat similar to gullywash i guess.

prolly put up pics tonight, get a working version tomorrow unless something happens.

i promise i will be with you shadlands, no matter what the issue, but there will be some issues to address.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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Penguin

Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome
aa
May 21, 2009
2,039
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let me know when this map gets good.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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ronnie the rat'd