Remnants

[evanonline]

I've been mulling it over and I think I am gonna change this to A/D CP. A/D CTF seems to illicit mostly complaints, and while I think it's a really cool gamemode and I really want it to work, it's just something people don't seem to enjoy.

Any thoughts on the map itself or the change? The new feedback thing really helps me collect complaints up well and I've noticed quite a lot about the rounds going by too quickly due to the gamemode. The rest are all about lighting and clipping issues which I've already been hard at work fixing.

Also, someone told me there's an exploit allowing people to go backwards into Stage 1 from Stage 2. Could someone elaborate? I have no idea what causes that.

 

[tyler]

This was tested in order to be added to rotation at the server I play on. They determined it had far, far too many easy-to-hold chokepoints, which was a shame because they loved the ghost.

Lighten the chokes and it'll be way better.

 

[LeSwordfish]

its not so much an exploit, as a door that isnt closed... i think reds spawn door either doesnt lock, or actually opens. I found it as just being open...

Also, its very hard to find the capture points. They all seemed to be around a corner. Most official maps, the points are very obvious, but on here, i kept coming on them (And their defenders) by suprise.

 

[evanonline]

Alright, I've put out a new version of ctf_remnants. I will be working on a cp version of the map that should be out within the next day or two. I'm gonna see what this map works better as, or if it even works as a map all that well whatsoever!

 

[evanonline]

I think I'm just gonna scrap this.

A/D CTF is just too flawed and the fact of the matter is I made a lot of stupid design choices myself. The map seems to outright leave an awful taste in peoples' mouths, and that's, err. NOT GOOD. I like a lot of the ideas behind this and I think I'm gonna plumb a lot of areas from this and make just a straight-up CP map, but...a straight up port would be even worse.

 

[lana]

The unfortunate part of A/D CTF is how the game dynamic just seems not fun. If even one player can slip past the defending team it can cause a lot of trouble, which results in the map needing chokepoints that are difficult to break through. However, in adding those, you make it more difficult for the attacking team to win and create a largely unfair advantage for RED. When you try to carry a map over to A/D CP, these problems persist, but moreso, and you end up with only one or two players capable of capturing the control point.

Furthermore, skill differences in TF2 are usually more balanced than they would be in other games because of how forgiving the core gamemodes are. Control points have a minimum time they take to capture, which allows a worse team to gain some leverage while the enemy exposes themselves. This doesn't work as well in CTF because the flag captures instantly, which means that a better team can rush a worse defensive team and win in less than a minute, while a better defensive team can easily stop an enemy push.

 

[evanonline]

Those are a lot of good points. Generally Vector and HAARP are well received and I studied the two of them pretty intently when I made this. But when it gets right down to it designing A/D CTF maps contradicts a lot of the concepts behind TF2 gameplay and a solid design doesn't necessarily make a fun level.

It's sort of unfortunate because I chose working on this over entering the Artpass contest. I want to say it feels like a waste that I worked on this but that's a little too defeatist. I will probably salvage parts of this for future maps, as I said, because I feel pretty committed to the theme I was trying to go for. It feels like a bit of a waste but I'm sure one of these days I'll make something decent.