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Reworked most of the map. Mid and last especially are now completely different.
Some extra detail was also added.
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Some extra detail was also added.
Read the rest of this update entry...
G.bo
L4: Comfortable Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 180
- 195
I won't lie, I like the direction this rework took. This is message breaks my thought process into a few different paragraphs, explaining the reasoning behind my thoughts. Be sure to take this with a grain of salt, since I'm only a Steel 6s player.
Middle Point (3rd)
The mid-fight previously (based off the screenshots I saw) had those big ramps that lead to the point, but those were really the only ways up to high ground. Now, mid reminds me a lot of Reckoner and Gullywash with the route under the point and the two ramps up to the control point. The only thing that I would personally change is altering the shed: right now, it feels a bit strange to have it slapped in the middle of the bridge, but (similarly to UEAKCrash's Glassworks's shack) opening it up or even enlarging it a bit could help make the hut a little more flowing with the other geometry.
Second Point (2nd/4th)
I have to say, this area looks like a ton of fun to play around, mostly due to the circular two-level point similar to gullywash. I do think that filling in a section between the two levels could make a passive hold a bit less difficult to form, since a sniper through choke (aka main route) already has decent sights over the high ground; however, do not take this as solid advice, since I haven't played on the map to test some of these theories out.
Last Point (1st/5th)
This point looks like it had the biggest rework, so I'll be going over what I think might be issues gameplay wise. To start, the way spawn dips into the ground will make leaving spawn more difficult, therefore making holding last harder. If you still want a ramp from spawn, I'd say make the ramp go upward a max of 128HU from the floor. Next, the room itself; it feels a bit too wide in comparison to how close the entrances are to the point. Even moving most of the room 256HU away from the entrance walls would help add some room for fights. Lobby (the section between 2nd and 1st) seems pretty well laid out to me, and having the cover around the point actually seems like a pretty good idea after I took the time to think about it.
Overall/General
On top of what I have said about gameplay, I have a few other littler things to bring up. First off, the tiles below pickups. I love these things. They're both a nice touch in terms of detail, (especially since decals might be harder to see in this theme,) but also have a small bonus of being visible in overview images. Next, the light_environment. I know this may seem pretty nitpicky, but I feel like making it steeper might be a good idea, since blu's side of mid and red's second point are mostly shade right now. These are really the only two things I wanted to bring up in this section.
I hope my feedback is helpful to you. If not, then I'm sorry for putting so much effort into this comment..
Middle Point (3rd)
The mid-fight previously (based off the screenshots I saw) had those big ramps that lead to the point, but those were really the only ways up to high ground. Now, mid reminds me a lot of Reckoner and Gullywash with the route under the point and the two ramps up to the control point. The only thing that I would personally change is altering the shed: right now, it feels a bit strange to have it slapped in the middle of the bridge, but (similarly to UEAKCrash's Glassworks's shack) opening it up or even enlarging it a bit could help make the hut a little more flowing with the other geometry.
Second Point (2nd/4th)
I have to say, this area looks like a ton of fun to play around, mostly due to the circular two-level point similar to gullywash. I do think that filling in a section between the two levels could make a passive hold a bit less difficult to form, since a sniper through choke (aka main route) already has decent sights over the high ground; however, do not take this as solid advice, since I haven't played on the map to test some of these theories out.
Last Point (1st/5th)
This point looks like it had the biggest rework, so I'll be going over what I think might be issues gameplay wise. To start, the way spawn dips into the ground will make leaving spawn more difficult, therefore making holding last harder. If you still want a ramp from spawn, I'd say make the ramp go upward a max of 128HU from the floor. Next, the room itself; it feels a bit too wide in comparison to how close the entrances are to the point. Even moving most of the room 256HU away from the entrance walls would help add some room for fights. Lobby (the section between 2nd and 1st) seems pretty well laid out to me, and having the cover around the point actually seems like a pretty good idea after I took the time to think about it.
Overall/General
On top of what I have said about gameplay, I have a few other littler things to bring up. First off, the tiles below pickups. I love these things. They're both a nice touch in terms of detail, (especially since decals might be harder to see in this theme,) but also have a small bonus of being visible in overview images. Next, the light_environment. I know this may seem pretty nitpicky, but I feel like making it steeper might be a good idea, since blu's side of mid and red's second point are mostly shade right now. These are really the only two things I wanted to bring up in this section.
I hope my feedback is helpful to you. If not, then I'm sorry for putting so much effort into this comment..
Thank you for the thorough and well thought out feedback. At this point it's getting hard for me to troubleshoot the map on my own, so it's definitely helpful.
As for the shack on mid, I wanted it to kind of limit vision between the two sides of mid, so I wouldn't really want to open it up more. Not saying it's fine as it is, though. Will have to wait and see what playtesters say about it.
You're right about the sniper sightline from choke, it's a bit worrying. I haven't come up with any (decent) ideas on how to mitigate it. Could you clarify what you meant by filling in between the two levels?
This new last was made in a bit of a hurry. Beater's probably running another playtest this weekend and I didn't want to miss out on that. In the earlier version the lobby/last area was way too big and this time I tried to make it as compact as possible, length-wise. As a result it does feel a bit wide. As it is, on this map it still takes longer to get to the mid point (walking) than any other 5cp map I tested, so it's a bit of a dilemma whether to expand last or not.
The reasoning for the dipped spawn doors is that people can't snipe from spawn (or otherwise exploit it as easily). But if players find it annoying, I'll certainly change it.
Changing the light angle seems like a good idea, I'll take a look on how to do it. Once again thanks for taking the time to comment.
As for the shack on mid, I wanted it to kind of limit vision between the two sides of mid, so I wouldn't really want to open it up more. Not saying it's fine as it is, though. Will have to wait and see what playtesters say about it.
You're right about the sniper sightline from choke, it's a bit worrying. I haven't come up with any (decent) ideas on how to mitigate it. Could you clarify what you meant by filling in between the two levels?
This new last was made in a bit of a hurry. Beater's probably running another playtest this weekend and I didn't want to miss out on that. In the earlier version the lobby/last area was way too big and this time I tried to make it as compact as possible, length-wise. As a result it does feel a bit wide. As it is, on this map it still takes longer to get to the mid point (walking) than any other 5cp map I tested, so it's a bit of a dilemma whether to expand last or not.
The reasoning for the dipped spawn doors is that people can't snipe from spawn (or otherwise exploit it as easily). But if players find it annoying, I'll certainly change it.
Changing the light angle seems like a good idea, I'll take a look on how to do it. Once again thanks for taking the time to comment.
G.bo
L4: Comfortable Member
- Sep 24, 2017
- 180
- 195
Sure thing! The two levels I'm talking about are the base and top bit of the control point, as seen in the photos of second. Putting a wall in there (probably in the part closer to choke) could give defending team cover on the low ground, but adding another wall on the top level of the point could also help with dealing with that nasty sniper spot.
Alright, so I tried to think of a way that you could shrink certain spots on the map in order to shorten the walk to mid, and I have a few ideas that could either help or completely fail entirely. First off, choke seems like it's been a bit of a rough one for you, so maybe bringing choke's corner closer to the wooden platform could help shorten the walk a little. You could also try shrinking the flanks a little from 2nd to mid, but I'm not sure how those would affect mid itself, so be careful. Finally, consider moving the forward spawns from in that room to where the palm trees are. Since the shack is on the point, shooting across the point from forward spawn will be way less viable, so take or leave that. This is just brainstorming, so feel free to do what you want to do.
At first, I thought you meant shutters, but then I realized you meant from the very back of spawn. Yeah, that is a really good reason to have those ramps. However, if you need to remove those ramps in the future, I'd say add small walls (either in spawn or in last) to help block those nasty sight lines.
I agree with keeping the shack fairly closed up, but I do think having a window and door for each side would be good (window going off bridge). Opening it up, to me, meant increasing the size to fit the bridge better; whether that means leaving a walk able area on the edge of the bridge is up to you.
I hope my clarifications helped. Good luck!
Environmental lighting is now more even across different sides of the map
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-reworked last point
-made mid significantly smaller
-additional plank ramp on 2nd point
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-made mid significantly smaller
-additional plank ramp on 2nd point
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Sure, they're updated now. Running low on ideas and motivation for this map tbh, particularly the last/lobby area. Going to slap a bit more detail on it and submit a final version.
removed rocks on mid
raised mid displacement somewhat
added ledge around mid monument so scouts can jump up
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raised mid displacement somewhat
added ledge around mid monument so scouts can jump up
Read the rest of this update entry...