Reanimation

[pl]

I haven't played this one in a while, but it certainly looks like it's coming together

 

[ChickenLover]

A couple things I noted from map test day:

* Stretched textures on many of the walls.
* Holes in the displacements.
* Felt way to big around point two.
* Pitch black in some areas. Difficult to navigate through.
* Point one felt too easy to defend once sentry farms and stickies were laid out.
* Got stuck on some of the detailing in the buildings near point three.
* The play around point three felt pretty good.
* Point two felt ok, but things started getting too big. Too sniper friendly.

 

[lana]

I wasn't having much fun on this map. Once a team took the second point, it was pretty much held for the rest of the game because the other team doesn't have any way to avoid them. Also, the rooftops felt like an achievement map, but that was because of all of the sentries we set up.

 

[Caliostro]

A couple things I noted from map test day:

* Stretched textures on many of the walls.
* Holes in the displacements.
* Pitch black in some areas. Difficult to navigate through.
* Got stuck on some of the detailing in the buildings near point three.

These I'm aware of but have deemed "details", so to speak. I know they can be annoying, but they don't influence gameplay significantly (except the getting stuck on details...sorry), so I'm leaving them to fix once the layout is "done", for the most part at least.

* Felt way to big around point two.
* Point one felt too easy to defend once sentry farms and stickies were laid out.
* The play around point three felt pretty good.
* Point two felt ok, but things started getting too big. Too sniper friendly.

Noted. Working on it thanks.

I wasn't having much fun on this map. Once a team took the second point, it was pretty much held for the rest of the game because the other team doesn't have any way to avoid them. Also, the rooftops felt like an achievement map, but that was because of all of the sentries we set up.

Well, honestly I saw the gameday demo a few times now and I didn't notice this. Point two seemed to switch hands frequently enough IMO. That said, I expected the rooftop gameplay to go significantly different... For once, most people didn't seem to notice there was a "jump ladder" up to the roof, and thought they were forced to rocket/sticky jump there... Working on that now thanks.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

The middle still looks entirely too large. Regardless of how it compares to other maps, the whole side areas adjacent to the point are just too much. In the last version I can recall a lot of the fighting (in all the areas, I mean) being determined by who would wait in cover around the edges of the areas and then destroying the enemies as they attacked.

Especially on middle CPs there needs to be some safety on the CP. Then, on 2nd, I believe you've got the opposite problem, with too much cover and business on the point itself. The fighting in that structure by 2nd is just very broken up, thanks to the complexity of that structure. Try to simplify it maybe.

-FoX

 

[Caliostro]

a9 released. See changelog for changes.

Please take a moment to read the following:

"9/10/2009 update:

I'm currently stuck regarding an issue with my map and I need your assistance to fix it.

See, the moment you spawn on the map, there's a very practical one way door directly on everyone's right that people seem to be missing entirely. It's not hidden by anything. It's directly to the right, up a flight of stairs, you can even see the "EXIT" sign above it from the spawn. But people seem to be focusing mostly on the big main entrance and completely ignoring this one.

This path is not, by all means, to become "near mandatory", but it does carry some interesting advantages to some classes at least, and it seems people just don't notice it more than "don't want to take it". Should I just let people learn it by themselves? After all it's not hidden and after a couple of games there they should learn where it is and where it leads. Did you notice it yourself? Any ideas?

Feedback necessary.
Cheers."

Thank you.

 

[Delusibeta]

Try rotating some of the spawn points so it sees both exits, and stick another exit sign on the wall beside the second exit?

 

[Caliostro]

Try rotating some of the spawn points so it sees both exits, and stick another exit sign on the wall beside the second exit?

Trying to avoid that simply due to an aesthetic reason.

Each team has 2 spawnrooms (high and low one), each room has 9 spawn points, 3 x 3:

O O O
O O O
O O O

No matter how I look at it if I rotate any of them it all feels...uneven...

It's a possibility, but I'd like to look into options first.

 

[littleedge]

Since you really only need 16 spawn points total, why don't you do this:

The lines are the doors, the circles are the spawns.
_ _
O O
O O O |
O O O |

Make the two that are closest to each door face that door. Make the middle left one face the top door. Make the bottom middle one face the right door. Make the center one go at a 45 angle, facing the corner between the doors. Make the bottom left one do the same.

Or you could always just make a larger spawn room...


http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_reanimation_a90018.jpg
Playerclip the walls in the buildings you used wood along the walls in.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_reanimation_a90019.jpg
Playerclip your fences.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_reanimation_a90021.jpg
Prop is clipping through, and playerclip the metal support beam thing.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_reanimation_a90023.jpg
The last two windows I can't jump out of smoothly because of the displacement walls and/or playerclips if you have any there.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_reanimation_a90022.jpg
Sew.

 

[Ravidge]

As I said ingame, There is a huge sniper issue on this map.
They can be anywhere and have a decent sightline. There is basically no spots that are bad in the map. Long stretches of flatness in all directions. And then there are the good spots where not only do you have great sight, but are also hidden in darkness or behind props in the distance.

I see a lot of barricade props in the map, especially at cap2/4, but they look really out of place and hard to navigate and they dont really help against snipers since they only need a split second to kill you.

You have just given snipers too much freedom and choice here. They are not a class you should cater to because they adapt to the environment much better than say, heavy or pyro.

To be perfectly honest: I think you need to remake the sections between the caps. And shrink the middle area down a bit. Work on the gameflow for the shortrange classes.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing the map. The high towers and stairs you can climb around are fantastic.

 

[Caliostro]

Updated... Even though this will be buried under the contest entries, just saying.


I haven't fixed everything yet, specially graphical/visual problems, but I'm currently more concerned about gameplay. Whenever I'm taking note of all the errors mentioned though.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, keep it coming!

 

[Swordz]

Lighning Leak and other thing

 

[Mr.Late]

*Map needs more signs. I got lost sometimes.
*Stairs are too steep
*Final CP is too easy to defend with sentries.

 

[Trust]

I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but today 2/4th and middle point were changing owners like hot cupcakes. No one seemed to capture the last point. Second spawn seemed pretty awful, and I'd also like to see more signs. Forward spawns also should be open at any time.

 

[Arkosis]

The map played pretty well, I just felt that the water under 2nd and 4th need a pocket of air, since I saw most people who were diving ended up choking for air.

 

[Fireman]

- The stairs going to the roof of the final point were very thin, made them rather irritating to use

- Walked out of the forward spawn while assaulting the last point, only to immediately walk into a few rocks, move them back a bit so they're not IN YOUR FACE the minute you get out.

- Still on the subject of that spawn, the doors were rather odd and non standard, and not immediately obvious to our team. Part of it might have been dark lighting in there, but a model switch to something that is more immediately recognizable as a door might be warranted.

- The attacking spawn before the 2nd point has been captured could do well with some signs to tell which exit leads where. Spawning there I saw I had two options on opposite sides of the room, stairs and water, but there was no clear indication of where either ended up.

 

[Caliostro]

Lighning Leak and other thing

The "other thing" I have to investigate, the "leak" is just the displacement being off the ground. I know about it but haven't felt like fixing it yet to be entirely honest. It's just an alpha, can wait. But thanks for the reminder.

*Map needs more signs. I got lost sometimes.
*Stairs are too steep
*Final CP is too easy to defend with sentries.

There'll be more signs!

Stairs I can't do much about. Space-related issue. I'm open to suggestions.

I'm open to suggestions on the final point too, although I got my own idea.

I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but today 2/4th and middle point were changing owners like hot cupcakes.

Good thing in my book. Nobody was putting enough of an effort defending to justify it being "tied up" to a team for too long IMO.

No one seemed to capture the last point. Second spawn seemed pretty awful, and I'd also like to see more signs. Forward spawns also should be open at any time.

Forward spawns can't be open at any time or they completely destroy offense.

Could you elaborate on the second spawn thing?

As for the last point, open to suggestions but working on it.

The map played pretty well, I just felt that the water under 2nd and 4th need a pocket of air, since I saw most people who were diving ended up choking for air.

At first it did have a pocket of air, but see, the thing is, the source engine (or at least the orange box version of it) isn't all that good with water... When 2 bodies of water are touching they need to have the same level... or bad things happen. If they aren't touching, worse things happen.

I had to remove the "pocket of air" I had because it involved having both bodies of water at different levels, which created a really awkward glitch. Particularly awkward because it only happened on the BLU side, which was a direct copy of the RED side.

I tried copy pasting the entire side, just the water, rebuilding the whole thing from scratch... Everything. Ultimately, I had to come to terms that I just couldn't include an air pocket.

I'll give another try at circumventing the issue, but no promises.

- The stairs going to the roof of the final point were very thin, made them rather irritating to use

I'm aware, but due to space restriction issues that's the best I can pull. I'm open to suggestions.

- Walked out of the forward spawn while assaulting the last point, only to immediately walk into a few rocks, move them back a bit so they're not IN YOUR FACE the minute you get out.

Not entirely sure what you're talking about... I'll take a look but if you can provide further information (Which spawn? Screenshot?) that'd be great.

- Still on the subject of that spawn, the doors were rather odd and non standard, and not immediately obvious to our team. Part of it might have been dark lighting in there, but a model switch to something that is more immediately recognizable as a door might be warranted.

Not sure which spawn you're talking about, so, need at least a bit more information there.

- The attacking spawn before the 2nd point has been captured could do well with some signs to tell which exit leads where. Spawning there I saw I had two options on opposite sides of the room, stairs and water, but there was no clear indication of where either ended up.

Mhh... Thought it was self-evident, but I made the map so I'm unconsciously aware of the layout. I'll try to clarify it in-game.


Thanks for the feedback everyone.

PS: I'd appreciate suggestions on the "final point" issue.

My current plan was to pull a "badlands", and surround the spawn from everywhere but the front, and to compensate make the cap time faster. Force an "immediate defense" situation after the second point is lost, like in badlands.

Suggestions? Ideas?

Cheers.

 

[Trust]

Forward spawns can't be open at any time or they completely destroy offense.

Could you elaborate on the second spawn thing?

Second spawn should be open at any time. I didn't like the overall general placement of the second spawn, and running around the stairs, then turning around again when I've hit dead end right after exiting the spawn also didn't seem cool. I understand that the dead end is the sign showing where to go, so there's no problem picking that up, but players generally don't like hitting these dead ends like that.

 

[Caliostro]

Second spawn should be open at any time. I didn't like the overall general placement of the second spawn, and running around the stairs, then turning around again when I've hit dead end right after exiting the spawn also didn't seem cool. I understand that the dead end is the sign showing where to go, so there's no problem picking that up, but players generally don't like hitting these dead ends like that.

Sorry, those will remain closed. If I open them that would ruin the battle over the second point, the defending team would just have a way too convenient resupply right there.

As for the exit, I'll take a look, cheers.

@ People who didn't like the final point/said it was too sentry friendly.

Hope that will fix it.

Inspired by Badlands, you can still build sentries anywhere, but most of them won't have a shot at anyone inside the point. Also people can now safely drop from the top levels and be mostly sentry free.

As a result, I didn't shorten the cap time, since it's a lot easier to "ninja" cap it now.

 

[Mr.Late]

It looks nice.

When the spawns are locked, there should be a sign that clearly shows that the spawn is closed.

(<- Like that)