Noob questions about func_details

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by trainRiderJ, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    This is my first post here so I guess I should say hi :) The tf2maps.net tutorials and forums in general have helped me out tremendously in making my first map.

    I'm pretty comfortable with the layout and general flow of my map (it's a fairly simple CTF, something good for me to start with). Right now, I'm at the stage where I'm adding details and lighting so everything doesn't look so awful.

    I've seen in numerous places that I want the majority of my brushes to be func_detail, especially main walls, floors, and ceilings. Is this correct?

    Also, I was under the impression that every brush created was a func_detail by default, so I really want to go in the opposite direction. That is, make essential view-blocking brushes (like pillars in the middle of the room) part of the "world", or a "world brush", or whatever the appropriate terminology is. Would this also be correct thinking?
     
  2. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    It isn't correct. func_details is for details (lol), dont tie to func_detail big structures like walls, floors, etc. func_detail is useful for compiling, because it helps VIS, and ur map will have less triangles to render. See some Optimization tutorial to know what I'm talking about.

    And making complex structures like cylinders as world brushes are not a good idea. This will create lots of "faces" or "divisions" on the colliding surface. Squares ----> World Brushes Cylinders ------>func_detail.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  3. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    So all my main walls, floors, and ceilings should be world brushes, and things like pillars and staircases should be tied to func_details?

    EDIT: What if I've got a staircase leading up to a catwalk that goes around the top of the room. When the staircase is a func_detail, light goes through it, which looks sort of weird. What is a good solution to this? Or am I doing something inherently wrong?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  4. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Func_detail does not determine the lighting structure of your map. This is probably a problem with your brushwork. I'd have to see a picture of the structure to point out possible mistakes. Also, don't forget that func_details don't seal the map, so you can't have any extending to the black void around it.
     
  5. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    That's the problem though, isn't it? I make my staircase tied to func_details so so vvis doesn't go nuts, but now if a light is above the staircase, it will shine through it.

    I'm really sorry if I'm not understanding things correctly, obviously I have a lot to learn. I might go re-read some of the optimization/lighting tutorials when I get off work.
     
  6. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    func_detail doesn't block light, it doesn't block VIS too.

    Examples for using it: stairs, cylinders with no shadows, complex objects touching other objects.

    If you want to creat a cylinder WITH shadow you should make it a func_wall, it will not block VIS but it will block light.
     
  7. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    Awesome Spike, that sounds exactly like what I need! Thanks to both of you for putting up with my noobness :)
     
  8. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    Uh... func_detail brushes DO block light, just like world brushes. The only difference is that they aren't considered during vvis, which means they can't seal a map to prevent leaks either.

    If you're having difficulty with the lighting around your func_detail brushes it could be a different type of problem. Because details don't break up the space in vvis the lightmaps aren't broken up either. So if you've got a thin detail brush against a large world brush you may get a light leak where the light appears to "bleed" around the edge of the detail brush a little. In some cases this won't be an issue, in other cases it can be pretty obvious.

    Having a screenshot of your particular issue might be helpful in allowing us to analyze and help you correct the problem.
     
  9. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    Hmmm thanks Tom. The problem might be the leaks in my map caused by the fact that the main walls are all func_details. I'm at work so I haven't been able to try anything with the map. Gimme a couple hours and I'll report back with some progress and maybe a screenshot if you're lucky!
     
  10. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    Yes, if you have leaks (not light leaks, but real actual leaks that show up during the compile process) then that will DRASTICALLY alter the lighting you see in-game. Make sure your map is completely sealed with WORLD brushes and is leak-free before you test lighting.
     
  11. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    I had a few leaks, I went ahead and fixed them and now the lighting looks great! I also discovered that none of the brushes in my map were func_detailed even though I thought they were, so I'll be sure to do that to the ones needing it as I go.

    Thanks a lot for everyone's help. This is my first experience making maps for any game, and I've obviously still got quite a bit to learn :)
     
  12. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    It takes a while to get the hang of things. As long as you're willing to check out tutorials and take the time to figure things out you can get a pretty good handle on mapping before too long. I've still got plenty to learn myself.
     
  13. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Source will still compile lighting if you have a leak, a weird quirk of it, but that lighting will not reflect the correct lighting at all.