Matterhorn

HojoTheGreat

L5: Dapper Member
Nov 11, 2008
206
34
Good point, may have been a premature response :p, regardless however I'd like to see how a few more tests go before drastically altering the current setup. Regardless, I still a smart Red team can easily force Blue out of there, or at the very least get rid of any teleporters exits in there.
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
We played this version last night and it seems to fix some of the problems. The HUD is now less confusing which is great and the points are now locked when they are supposed to be so that's definitely a good thing.

I don't think the vent is very hard to protect for red. Anyone who knows me, knows I am a terrible spy and I was able to run into the vent and backstab medics ready to drop down with ubers even though blue had an entire engie base setup at D.

The removal of the door between C and E seems to make it a lot easier to take E. It's hard to gauge since we were playing 6 v 6 yesterday and I am used to at last 12 v 12, but there certainly are a lot less good places to build on E now.

I think you should expand E a bit into that open area in front of it. I think the entrances to E are fine and the width of E is fine, but it could be a bit longer, extending into that large room a bit more. From memory I would say it could be extended to where the window starts near the red spawn but if I actually looked back at the map that could be a bit too much.

Anyway, great work. People still love the map and I think the changes between A8 and A9 improve the map exactly how they intended to.

 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
took a look around... still waiting to get a chance on alive server with this one...

Right now, I only have 1 gripe, the truck in the screenshot seems out of place.

Other than that, from what I can tell, it's shaping up very nicely. :)
 

[O]

L3: Member
Mar 21, 2009
121
27
loved the whole spawn are idea being an underground break through.

i would recommend changing the health closet model to something else befitting that theme: perhaps a mining cart with ammo/health packs stacked in them or the payload cart without the bomb.

it was my first time playing so i dont have much on balance and cap area layouts, but i do have one comment about somethign strange that was happening.

i would place my teleport ext under that hydaulic ramp. it is a perfect location for a forward teleport. but everytime someone comes through it self-destructs or something. might want to check that out.
 

HojoTheGreat

L5: Dapper Member
Nov 11, 2008
206
34
Alpha 11 is now available HERE

Full Change log:
Alpha 11 - May 1, 2009

Extract with 7Zip or WinRAR to:
C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\USERNAME\team fortress 2\tf\maps

Changes:
- Removed Red spawn next to E (D side)
- Placed Red spawn below the E building
  • Added a connected exit from both Red spawns into the Main E lobby
- Fixed early captures of E not triggering the win for Blue
- Fixed B ramp pausing while a player stood on it
- Added Nobuild around the consoles on E
- Fixed some clipping issues

Known Errors:
- Some clipping issues may arise, PLEASE REPORT THEM!
- The env_sun is not lined up properly

Things to do:
- MOVE TO BETA
- Finish final lighting
- Continue detailing
- Adjust spawn times as needed
- Tinker with soundscapes

A major thanks goes out to A Boojum Snark for all of his entity-guru support! This map wouldn't run half as well without him :)

Another thanks to The Darkers Side of Your Shadow for the great pickup-truck models, and to Nova Silisko for helping reduce the absurd file size.

Also, big shoutout to the guys at Calculated Chaos for all of their testing and support!

PLEASE REPORT ANY ERRORS, GLITCHES, POOR CONSTRUCTION ETC.
And have fun :D

Discussion Thread
 

GrimGriz

L10: Glamorous Member
Jan 2, 2009
774
133
but when they were built on the console they were protected somewhat from demo nades from the vent rolling at them
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
We played a couple rounds last night. I had a great time and I think that all of the improvements are good. Ramp works fine, last point caps fine and I think maving of the red spawn was a good call.

Obviously you'll need to add some details in the area where the red spawn used to be because it is a bit bare now.

No negative feedback. It's hard to test maps when there are so many new people playing the game right now but it seemed to be pretty balanced and a lot of fun.

 

Fireman

L4: Comfortable Member
Mar 21, 2008
150
59
Quick feedback while maps are changing - while it felt like you had to fight for most of the points, which was a good thing, B always seemed to go down rather quickly and easily, perhaps due to the tunnel the attackers had leading to it right from their spawn.
 

lustygoat

L2: Junior Member
Feb 14, 2009
66
23
I really like this map overall. My only complaint is it's pretty dark around A. On my machine I never have problems seeing things in all the Valve maps but if it's daytime I can barely make out what's going on in the little tunnels without resorting to cranking up the brightness.
 

MungoKing

L3: Member
Jul 12, 2008
148
47
I think the overall level design is down pat, everything flows very smoothly, and the signs are perfect how they are. The only problems now I think are the areas immediately around the control points. B is extremely easy for blue to cap due to Blue being able to completely control all the entrances. You'd think the cramped nature of the area would allow a demo or pyro to get in there and wipe the floor with them, but two heavies just sitting on the control point completely dominate it. D is easy to capture due to the multiple entrances, but I think that control point is perfect, I love the feel of it. Probably just make the actual capture area smaller so a single demoman can't just sticky the multiple entrances and sit in a corner, still capping, but covering every entrance. I'm not sure why D is always capped first, I think player-nature :)P) is to go set up at C because well, it's next in the alphabet after B. But D is much easier to cap than C (I think, maybe not enough rounds played), so it kind of messes with your head. Maybe a small thing like switching the letter each cap area corresponds to would fix the problem? Not sure. Sentries on C aren't all that hard to get rid of, I did it myself without an uber 3 times as a demoman... I'm thinking maybe the issue this time was with players, not the map. Both teams were lacking an adequate amount of medics, and possibly not pushing as much as they were suppose to... Sorry I can't be of much more help :( . The new spawn system works very well I think, no issues with that. Overall I really like this map, I look forward to a12, or B1!
 

Squirrelinabox

L1: Registered
Mar 27, 2009
27
5
As I mentioned during playtesting today I was quite surprised how easy it is to figure out where you are going the first few times you play. The signs with multiple point directions on them work great to let players know where they need to go. I rarely got lost and it was my first time ever playing the map.

We only played a couple rounds but both ended with A, B, and D being capped and the defense winning with C and E both alive. Both teams usually tried to get C before E so C may need to be slightly harder to defend (though I only played it those two times so it may be much better other times).

B was way too hard to defend. I think it's the combination of a tiny room around the point surrounded by an extremely open area. This makes it difficult to have any sort of line of defense when the offense can attack from anywhere and just spam the room. Sentries have no chance.

Sadly, I had little experence with point A as it was generally capped before I got a good look at it and how the teams handled it.

The only other thing I'd say is that the Blue team's spawn bugged me. I don't know why, but I didn't like the underground sewers. I didn't notice if Red could get in there, but if they cannot, then you may want to put some nobuilds in there as Blue can easily set up teleporter entrances that are completely untouchable by red. This may be okay, I don't know, but having invulnerable teleporter entrances seems like a bad idea.

Overall the map was incredibly fun to play. I'd definitely look for it on regular servers. I look forward to trying out future versions!
 

captainAngry

L420: High Member
Feb 1, 2009
434
247
I have already given Hojo most of my opinions on the latest version but I just wanted to say that I don't think there is anything wrong with point B.

To me, the purpose of this point is to temporarily stall the blue team while you get stuff setup on C and D. It is impossible to defend for very long but you can easily squeeze a minute or two of setup time by having a few people protect it while engies setup.

And squirrel, it's on my server's regular rotation if you ever want to stop by.
 

Mar

Banned
Feb 12, 2009
607
63
the purpose of this point is to temporarily stall the blue team while you get stuff setup on C and D. It is impossible to defend for very long but you can easily squeeze a minute or two of setup time by having a few people protect it while engies setup.

Bad idea. A control point should never be to stall people to allow defense to set up. Don't make a control point a "throw away" one for 3 reasons



1. Attackers get an advantage from capping it. They gain more time and a psychological advantage. No defense likes losing a point or getting rolled.

2. Respawn times get modified to the attackers, so losing the point is obviously bad for defense.

3. Defenders will always defend their control point as much as possible. By giving them a control point they will defend B instead of setting up at C or D. No-one wants to lose a control point and give it to the other team. There going to set up at B, not C or D.

If you want to have a an area that will stall the attackers, make the same thing, minus the control point. Never throw away a control, especially if your logic is that it will benefit the defense. Losing a point never benefits the defense.

PS. |AoC| didn't forget about the map test. Were just having some clan issues and I'm in the process of receiving admin for another server. This maptest will happen my Saturday, promise. PM me or steam me when you get the chance.

PSS. When are you going to update the map to a12 or B1? You want to do that before or after the maptest?
 

HojoTheGreat

L5: Dapper Member
Nov 11, 2008
206
34
Thanks for all of the feedback guys! All in all I needed to see if the moved spawn was both reasonable and balanced, and it seems to be both, so it looks like this can FINALLY be the final alpha. The layout is about as solid as I can make it at this point, and while I will tweek things like spawntime throughout the betas, I'm pretty satisfied with the way everything runs.

Things I plan to address in the next version are the lighting, which is too dark in places like A and just don't suit TF2 well enough. I'll be taking a good hard look at B as well, probably making the door(s) wider to prevent the chokeholds heavies and demos have on the place.

Other than that, it's going to be an aesthetics party from here on out. While many areas look 'finished' in terms of detailing I really do aspire for something much better, and hopefully by putting a few weeks' worth of work into B1 instead just one, I can make some real headway.