- Jan 15, 2023
- 59
- 24
Ponds34 submitted a new resource:
Jarl - We shall go to valhalla brothers
Read more about this resource...
Jarl - We shall go to valhalla brothers
Read more about this resource...
- Thread starter Ponds34
- Start date
- Jan 15, 2023
- 59
- 24
Ponds34 updated Jarl with a new update entry:
added a lower floor
Read the rest of this update entry...
added a lower floor
Read the rest of this update entry...
FlipFTW
L1: Registered
- Jul 12, 2020
- 16
- 21
Hi
Played Jarl as part of the hybrid map test recently - was thinking about the map more.
Never been a fan of arena but Jarl actually interested me as playing quite well - I think many of the problems with arena (heavy encouragement to stall, playing around uber, last man stalling) are quietly resolved by medieval, so I think the blending of the two gamemodes struck me as a surprisingly enjoyable fusion (great insight or instincts!)
I actually feel quite guilty leaving feedback because I wasn't sure if this "solving' was serendipitous or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter - I think it does work and has something to say (hey this works! check it out!) - but with that there are still more problems/challenges to solve.
1) Repetition
Arena rounds are FAST. I think people often talk about how KOTH vs PL is harder to map for in terms of longevity because people feel they've seen and experienced all the map quite quickly - I think Arena has this problem on steroids.
A person I was playing with mentioned that they thought the map was fun - but it was missing a dynamic element - I couldn't help tossing over this idea in my mind and ended up wondering if there was a solution for both.
random suggestion - maybe have more dynamic spawns, I see 2-3 areas that I think (given the size and scale of the map) could make for alternative spawn rooms. I think the repetition from always having enemies come from the same direction does result in some pre-firing, prechaging and etc that if you don't like could help mitigate.
OFC if you don't view this as a problem and think its part of the dynamic (adapting to repetitive strategies) that's fine as well
2) Tension (Snowballing)
Arena rounds often have this big issue where the ending is typically a 1v4+ scenario where there isn't realistically a way to comeback. The cap point prevents stalling but this is not only "lame" but also anticlimactic - as forcing a conflict generally just will result in the obvious play happening.
I would consider alternative victory conditions for the "losing team". Consider how the Halloween lumberyard has a pre-point unlock legendary spell to discourage solely camping point.
Suggestions:
these are just various ideas with inbuilt problems as well - but just some random thoughts to get your own creative ideas flowing.
On this topic, first blood crits contributes majorly in medieval toward one team having a large initial advantage, even if you are against comeback mechanics such as the above - I think the crits can result in largely helpless/lost rounds VERY quick.
Finally, I think the underpass is not as engaging as the previous slow gate design.
Formerly - I recall that while there was a front enterence the back enterance had quite a delayed opening - this resulted in the flank becoming unsafe after a reasonable period of time, now the closest distance to combat is under the spawns - likely precharging the tunnel. This can end up being a bit degerate and I dont think this gameplay space is built to handle a collision of the teams (what it may degerate to given its importance and medium health pack).
Hopefully random ramblings help - I understand there is not much time left in the contest but I'd feel remiss if I didn't at least verbalize some of my thoughts - hopefully you find them insightful!
-Flip
Played Jarl as part of the hybrid map test recently - was thinking about the map more.
Never been a fan of arena but Jarl actually interested me as playing quite well - I think many of the problems with arena (heavy encouragement to stall, playing around uber, last man stalling) are quietly resolved by medieval, so I think the blending of the two gamemodes struck me as a surprisingly enjoyable fusion (great insight or instincts!)
I actually feel quite guilty leaving feedback because I wasn't sure if this "solving' was serendipitous or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter - I think it does work and has something to say (hey this works! check it out!) - but with that there are still more problems/challenges to solve.
1) Repetition
Arena rounds are FAST. I think people often talk about how KOTH vs PL is harder to map for in terms of longevity because people feel they've seen and experienced all the map quite quickly - I think Arena has this problem on steroids.
A person I was playing with mentioned that they thought the map was fun - but it was missing a dynamic element - I couldn't help tossing over this idea in my mind and ended up wondering if there was a solution for both.
random suggestion - maybe have more dynamic spawns, I see 2-3 areas that I think (given the size and scale of the map) could make for alternative spawn rooms. I think the repetition from always having enemies come from the same direction does result in some pre-firing, prechaging and etc that if you don't like could help mitigate.
OFC if you don't view this as a problem and think its part of the dynamic (adapting to repetitive strategies) that's fine as well
2) Tension (Snowballing)
Arena rounds often have this big issue where the ending is typically a 1v4+ scenario where there isn't realistically a way to comeback. The cap point prevents stalling but this is not only "lame" but also anticlimactic - as forcing a conflict generally just will result in the obvious play happening.
I would consider alternative victory conditions for the "losing team". Consider how the Halloween lumberyard has a pre-point unlock legendary spell to discourage solely camping point.
Suggestions:
- Having a "relay" - last player alive must touch 4 points (one in each corner of map) - if they do so they win (or receive significant buff)
- Having a "survival" - last player marked/outline/given intel - must survive for period of time? (Change winning team from camping to hunting)
- Having a "delivery" - last player(s) must
- Have a "debuff" - players alive on advantaged team are marked for death / milked
these are just various ideas with inbuilt problems as well - but just some random thoughts to get your own creative ideas flowing.
On this topic, first blood crits contributes majorly in medieval toward one team having a large initial advantage, even if you are against comeback mechanics such as the above - I think the crits can result in largely helpless/lost rounds VERY quick.
Finally, I think the underpass is not as engaging as the previous slow gate design.
Formerly - I recall that while there was a front enterence the back enterance had quite a delayed opening - this resulted in the flank becoming unsafe after a reasonable period of time, now the closest distance to combat is under the spawns - likely precharging the tunnel. This can end up being a bit degerate and I dont think this gameplay space is built to handle a collision of the teams (what it may degerate to given its importance and medium health pack).
Hopefully random ramblings help - I understand there is not much time left in the contest but I'd feel remiss if I didn't at least verbalize some of my thoughts - hopefully you find them insightful!
-Flip