Help with hints on an open map?

[Bib]

Hi there. I've been developing my first map for about a month now and I still can't seem to really wrap my head around hints. I've watched multiple tutorials but can't seem to really grasp where to use hints besides in indoor areas with corridors. This poses a challenge because my map is majority a fairly open outdoor environment with a tall ceiling. A good amount of the boundaries are comprised of fences that don't block visibility. Would I add hints to the boundaries as if they were walls?

A list of issues I'm having are as follows:
-I'm running nearly 4,500 numportals on a fairly small map and feel I've used func_details a little too liberally still
-Nearly the entirety of the map is visible at almost all times minus the indoor areas which I've areaportaled. A large chunk of Red's spawn is still being drawn from Blu's spawn for example.
-I have ugly clusters of many visleaves around the cap point area.

I'll provide an overview image of the map and can provide more pictures if needed. If anyone could draw a few lines to give me a general idea of where to start hinting, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[nesman]

Have you read this? https://www.mapcore.org/articles/development/optimizing-an-open-map-in-source-engine-r88/

 

[Bib]

Have you read this? https://www.mapcore.org/articles/development/optimizing-an-open-map-in-source-engine-r88/

Not yet. I''ll give it a read.

 

[Bib]

Alright, so I added the horizontal hints at certain elevations but am still pretty stumped with vertical hints . My map is symmetrical but the opposing sides don't line up with one another. I've added quite a few hints along some building walls here and there and now I'm nearly at 7,000 numportals with 2400 clusters which seems extremely excessive for a map of this size. Compile time hovers around 40 minutes as opposed to the 5-7 before I started hinting (full compile with all settings), so I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong.
Here's a couple images of the absolute mess of visleaves. I can post a vmf if someone wants to really look at it.

 

[nesman]

That second image isn't going to do a ton for you. You should try doing the full sized hints like this. Not the best example but an example nonetheless. Here's another thread that may help. https://tf2maps.net/threads/what-are-hints-skips-and-clips.26749/

 

[Bib]

So large hint brushes that span big chunks of the map is what you mean? I disabled hints in the screenshots, I shouldve kept them in. The second one has some roof ones that I noticed on Valve maps.
Here's an image of what I did showing the hints. It's an absolute mess.

 

[nesman]

ah yea I see, maybe a couple more horizontal hints? I have about 3 on my map. You could try looking at granary too for tips as it's similar to your map in terms of flatness and theme. You can also try occluders, prop fade, area portals, and some skyboxes on the tops of the taller buildings to help break up the map.

 

[Bib]

ah yea I see, maybe a couple more horizontal hints? I have about 3 on my map. You could try looking at granary too for tips as it's similar to your map in terms of flatness and theme. You can also try occluders, prop fade, area portals, and some skyboxes on the tops of the taller buildings to help break up the map.

To be honest, the area portals may be the best bet. I'm glad you picked up on the Granary inspiration. I've used it for reference quite a bit. Yeah, I'll try area portals with the silos in the second picture of my before post. I'll post results when done.

 

[Bib]

Alright, I've closed off the spawn area with areaportals. The upside is my visleaves are manageable again and the compile times are more or less back to normal. I feel like I can actually start using hints with this, too. The downside is that the map feels a bit more claustrophobic. But not by much. The brushwork is a total mess, but neatness is a total loss on this map by this stage. I'll keep grid building in mind for future projects.