Extensive map lighting problems.

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by DarkShadow6, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUg_lanmloE
    Pretty much explains it all.

    "Various problems I'm having with my Hammer-compiled map. Lighting is broken around the RED spawn, and (this may be an intentional Source feature) the spawn rooms are showing up behind the skybox (as in, it's me -> skybox material -> spawn room, but I can still see it.
    Yes, this was a fast compile, but in a full compile most of the RED side is even more engulfed in black."

    Yes, I've checked for leaks, but bsp reports no leaks and doesn't generate a pointfile:
    Code:
    ** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk\bin\orangebox\bin\vbsp.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final"
    
    Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Oct 31 2012)
    2 threads
    materialPath: c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf\materials
    Loading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.vmf
    ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
    fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
    Processing areas...done (0)
    Building Faces...done (0)
    Chop Details...done (0)
    Find Visible Detail Sides...
    Merged 298 detail faces...done (0)
    Merging details...done (0)
    FixTjuncs...
    PruneNodes...
    WriteBSP...
    done (0)
    writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.prt...Building visibility clusters...
    done (0)
    Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_hydro_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_hydro_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Finding displacement neighbors...
    Finding lightmap sample positions...
    Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Building Physics collision data...
    done (1) (313696 bytes)
    Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Compacting texture/material tables...
    Reduced 1729 texinfos to 1205
    Reduced 14 texdatas to 14 (339 bytes to 339)
    Writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp
    15 seconds elapsed
    
    Any suggestions?

    (This was the first place I could think of for getting assistance with my map, and this is obviously my first post. I do hope I'm posting in the right place.)


    Edit: Oh, and, I forgot to add, I suppose I either don't understand the purpose of the skybox or I'm doing it wrong: Why does the 3D skybox get clipped by things behind a skybox brush?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  2. henke37

    aa henke37

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    Well, it isn't obviously leaked.

    And no, skybox does not act as a visibility blocker like that. It blocks potential visibility for a specific sightline. It does not guarantee that the geometry behind it wont be visible. It just allows vvis to not count that sightline. There may still be other sightlines into those visleaves that causes that visleaf to be rendered.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Spacek531

    Spacek531 L4: Comfortable Member

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    90
    the reason you see stuff behind the skybox is because there is a visible line between the stuff behind the skybox and you. It doesn't need to be direct, but if you can see around the skybox, you can see what's behind it depending on how your visleaf/areaportals are set up.

    Next, if things are all black, that generally means your map has a LEAK!!!!!!

    this is when the playing space has a way of escaping into the void, which is a really funny looking place. You'll know when you see it. Maps in source must be 'air-tight' even if they're outdoor maps, so close off any gaps that could let the precious air escape.

    The other possibility is that you don't have a light_environment set up correctly (i.e. with an angle of -20 to -90) OR you don't have lights in the red spawn. what happens in a room with no lights? it's dark.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  4. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    'Preciate it. I just don't want all that extra space on the sides/back of the spawn rooms that I know I'm not ever going to legitimately use. I suppose just filling the area with a playerclip would work.

    As I said in the OP, vbsp doesn't detect any leaks either. No need to explain leaks, I do lots of reading when it comes to trying new things (meaning I've done my research and done other small test maps before this one).
    The angle of the light_environment is -45. Does that affect anything?

    And about it being a room, did you watch the video? A large portion of the map is dark, and if I were to do a full compile it would be even worse.

    Edit 1: Here's a screenshot of a full compile: [​IMG]
    About what you said with the -20 to -90, I used this as a reference. I used the same two values (pitch and angle) for sky_hydro_01 for the env_sun and for the light_environment. Is this incorrect?

    Edit 2: Er, let me reiterate, the Pitch value of the env_sun and light_environment are -45, and the actual Pitch Yaw Roll (XYZ) value is 0 51 0.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  5. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    2,692
    Can you post your full compile log?
     
  6. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    I... I was going to do that, but I completely forgot.
    I'll do a compile now.


    Edit: Vrad froze, I'll do another one if need be.
    Code:
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk\bin\orangebox\bin\vbsp.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final"
    
    Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Oct 31 2012)
    2 threads
    materialPath: c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf\materials
    Loading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.vmf
    ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
    fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
    ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
    Processing areas...done (0)
    Building Faces...done (0)
    Chop Details...done (0)
    Find Visible Detail Sides...
    Merged 298 detail faces...done (0)
    Merging details...done (0)
    FixTjuncs...
    PruneNodes...
    WriteBSP...
    done (0)
    writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.prt...Building visibility clusters...
    done (0)
    Creating default LDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_hydro_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
       skybox/sky_hydro_01*.vmt
     ! Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
    Finding displacement neighbors...
    Finding lightmap sample positions...
    Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Building Physics collision data...
    done (1) (313843 bytes)
    Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
    Compacting texture/material tables...
    Reduced 1686 texinfos to 1168
    Reduced 15 texdatas to 14 (361 bytes to 343)
    Writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp
    5 seconds elapsed
    
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk\bin\orangebox\bin\vvis.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final"
    
    Valve Software - vvis.exe (Oct 31 2012)
    2 threads
    reading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp
    reading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.prt
     682 portalclusters
    2112 numportals
    BasePortalVis:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    PortalFlow:          0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (507)
    Optimized: 2779 visible clusters (1.25%)
    Total clusters visible: 221771
    Average clusters visible: 325
    Building PAS...
    Average clusters audible: 670
    visdatasize:116983  compressed from 120032
    writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp
    8 minutes, 28 seconds elapsed
    
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk\bin\orangebox\bin\vrad.exe"
    ** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final"
    
    Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (Oct 31 2012)
    
          Valve Radiosity Simulator     
    2 threads
    [Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
    [34 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']
    
    Loading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp
    Setting up ray-trace acceleration structure... Done (1.30 seconds)
    5154 faces
    2288574 square feet [329554752.00 square inches]
    0 Displacements
    0 Square Feet [0.00 Square Inches]
    5154 patches before subdivision
    zero area child patch
    165380 patches after subdivision
    sun extent from map=0.000000
    74 direct lights
    BuildFacelights:     0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (72)
    BuildVisLeafs:       0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (66)
    transfers 14844200, max 595
    transfer lists: 113.3 megs
    GatherLight:         0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
    	Bounce #1 added RGB(1, 1, 1)
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    GatherLight:         0.
    ** Executing...
    ** Command: Copy File
    ** Parameters: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\custom\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\dark_shadow_6\team fortress 2\tf\maps\cp_orange_scaffolds_v1_final.bsp"
    
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  7. squintik

    squintik L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    57
    Positive Ratings:
    35
    Some stuff to check :
    - are you sure vrad compiles correctly in general ? (as it froze last time you checked, and it looks like there are a lot of bounces lines, it looks suspicious to me :p)

    - nothing in the check map for errors ? (invalid bsp, etc...)

    - try a compile with only your light_environment (and not other light / light_spot / etc...) (just put all your lights but your light_env in a hidden visgroup and compile)

    - do you have a 3d skybox ?
    if yes, make a visgroup with it and try a compile wihout it (as the 3d skybox can cast shadow on the normal geometry)
    if no, make sure you don't have any sky_camera entity in your map

    if nothing works, you can also try :
    - do a compile with the bare minimum (with the auto visgroups, hide func_details, displacements, etc... and keep only your entities, skybox, world geometry and other stuff like that)

    - select all » copy » new map » paste special (and see what happens after the compile)

    (there's probably other possible tests, but this should be a good start !)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  8. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

    Messages:
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    VRAD crashed, of course your lighting is going to be broken. You must be doing something ridiculous with lights - delete all of them and start over, this time using only light and light_environment. Oh, and the 8 minute VVIS isn't helping either, so delete anything you carved and read up on func_detail.
     
  9. Eyce

    Eyce L6: Sharp Member

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    225
    Judging from how they move through the video, I've got the feeling that they built the level inside a giant hollow box with the skybox texture.
     
  10. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    0
    It sometimes just stops doing anything. It happens with every map I've compiled at least once. My computer isn't a monster or anything (and that's being generous).

    Just complaining about a lack of singleplayer spawn points.

    Will do.

    I tried a 3d skybox at one point, but it turned out to not be such a good idea (with the world geometry showing in front regardless of what clipping/occluding plane it should rightfully be behind, too lazy to hint the entire thing just to get a small effect to work that probably doesn't save that much, if any, processing power).

    I think I'll try that first.

    I never thought of that. Maybe the vmf is corrupt or something.

    Thank you very much, I'll try what I can.

    ...All I used was light, light_spot and light_environment. And, as I said, I'm not some intellectually deficient child whom has no prior game production history/doesn't do his homework. I've func_detailed a lot of the map (the decorative guardrails on the balconies, most of the light fixtures, various small brushes that serve no purpose). Though I suppose I could attempt to intersect some of the major corners better, I've read that that helps with the number of visleafs.
    Carve? Are you serious? I've enough restraint to not go near it with the way people talk about it. Not like I'd have any use for it, anyway; if I really needed to do something like that I'd just use face displacements.
    As I said I can recompile if it freezing is a problem in analyzing the structure of the map compile process. And, it froze, not crashed; I would think that having vrad on realtime and it taking no cpu or memory is frozen/hanging.

    "They" is right here, thank you. I can appreciate your attempt to make me gender-neutral as to not offend (if that was your intention) but "he" is fine.
    And, yes, it is an open map. It is a floating airbase thing. The size of the walls really adds to the compile time, I know. But I prefer having lots of space in my maps (and before someone says, yes, there are smaller spaces, i.e. in the buildings/on the edges of them).
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  11. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    I tried copying the content of the map into a new file, but the same result was observed:
    [​IMG]

    I tried hiding some visgroups; before:
    [​IMG]
    ...and after:
    [​IMG]
    ...and in-game:
    [​IMG]
    Well, what do you know. Apparently it has something to do with one of the visgroups I had hidden: Auto/Custom/Cameras, and Auto/World Details/Func Detail. Probably the latter.

    I have a hunch, now, about why it may be happening. I'm going to try it out and then recompile to see if it fixes it.

    (Actually, no, I'm going to bed.)


    Also, while I'm here, does anyone have any history with func_tracktrain? I'm trying to use it to make a back-and-forth platform system, and it's fine until the return trip, where it stops prematurely and tries to go back. So far I've cleaned it up a bit with some triggers but it's still prety iffy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  12. PoignardAzur

    PoignardAzur L2: Junior Member

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    Have you tried to compile again with only one of those, to see wich one cause the error ?
     
  13. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    One of what?
     
  14. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Use a func_movelinear for the platform, it's much simpler.
     
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  15. squintik

    squintik L2: Junior Member

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    If you want to use a func_tracktrain, just look at how the payload entity is done in the sdk examples, it's basically the same thing (it's a func_tracktrain that can go forward/backward/forward/etc... you just need to use some simple set speed inputs).

    And yeah, as PoignardAzur is adivising, try to compile with only part of your func_details, as the problem probably comes from one (or several) of them.
    (so yeah, try a compile with everything but the func_details just to be sure it comes from one of them, then do a visgroup with half of them and compile again, etc....)

    Also, just as a note, all your catwalks (at the exterior of the building) should be func_detail :p (but well, it won't fix your problem and is just optimization stuff).
     
  16. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    I'll try it.

    They already work fine, the problem is when it comes back to rest at its starting point, it stops and reverses prematurely (no, this is not a fault of my own (probably)). I had to force it to go back to its starting position. It works, but if you're too far on the back side you'll fall off.

    It'll be work, but will do. It was most certainly one of them.
    I wonder why they're causing such a problem?

    ...Most of them are...
     
  17. PoignardAzur

    PoignardAzur L2: Junior Member

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    I was advising you to try compiling with on those two visgroups (Cameras, Func Detail) to be sure of wich one causes your bugs.

    Actually, thats the base of the classic debugging aproach in, well anything. You remove/replace one half of the parts of what you're analysing (here, your map), then you see if it now works. If it works, the problem is in the part you've removed, if it's not, restart from the beginning with other parts. Then spare the things that don't work until you've found what exactly caused the problem.
     
  18. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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    I'm a programmer. As I've grown over the years my method of debugging has simply come down to "find error, fix error". A large part of debugging can be eradicated with right knowledge.
    But that's just it, I haven't much idea what I'm doing, besides general background knowledge. The only reason I came here was because I've never encountered this problem before and I wouldn't even know where to start to fix it. Not only that, but I don't want to spend days slowly recompiling my map after I dis/enable each visgroup, delete each object, etc.
     
  19. PoignardAzur

    PoignardAzur L2: Junior Member

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    Sorry, I thought you didn't know that :(

    Aniway, if you're blocked because of this issue, it might still be a good idea to try the dichotomic way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  20. DarkShadow6

    DarkShadow6 L1: Registered

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