CTF Base Layouts: Unifying Two Sections of the Same Base

[StoneFrog]

I'm just wondering if you guys think a CTF map should have big (well, at least 2fort or well sized) bases. I really don't want them to be so extensive that everybody holes up in them, I'd rather everybody stay on the offensive or even defenders to spread out a bit into the outdoor areas.

Of course, I can't force-change playing styles so I'm not sure if it'd work well.

 

[samn]

If you want people to be offensive, give them bases that are hard to defend but easy to attack.

Engineers and snipers usually stay at the base and camp - perhaps try and give them an incentive to attack like the rest of the team.

 

[StoneFrog]

Well, I sketched up my new idea for the map and recreated it in Photoshop a bit earlier today. This does not have base designs yet and is only a very rough design so I can show you guys how my intentions for gameflow would be.

Unless I do some major spacial rearrangement, I think it'd fare better as a cp map. :X

I could streamline it so intel-to-intel travel time isn't as lengthy, but it may be better just to make it a CP map. I don't know. Ideas?

 

[StoneFrog]

*Bump*

I have also had a multi-flag CTF idea going on for a while, wherein each team has 3 intelligence cases that you capture in a linear order. Whoever captures all 3 first or has more at the end of the round wins.

This would allow for CTF gameplay while still allowing the bases to not be too big and allow for the map being larger than normal, but I'm still not sure whether or not I like this...

 

[Mar]

1. very nice drawing.

2. You already have your mid and final point. Just a bit more and you could make a great cp.

3. Can a player enter the white area? If you can't that makes the mid too narrow to be a good CTF map. CTF maps need to be huge to work.

4. you need another bridge leading to the mill, other wise it's too cramped.

5. This map is going places. I love how your fully fleshing it out with these awesome sketches. Really great job!

 

[StoneFrog]

1) Thanks!

2) Yeah, I'm thinking that the final points could be spytech bases behind the mills. That, or somewhere in the terrain between the rivers and watermills could be the outer points and the watermills house the final ones. I think I don't want the points to be as close to one another as Valve would do, though. I think I want them to be a bit further apart and take longer to cap, so instead of it being like "yay, we're at their final p- some scout's capping our point", things would play out much more slowly and control of the points wouldn't fluctuate between the two teams as much. This may change, though.

3) The grey pathways are tunnels. Do you mean the background color, the pale lime greenish thing? They can't, with one exception (oversight on my part). If you didn't know, the brighter green areas are higher than the darker areas. I fixed it - the whole region between the higher areas and the river would be accessible, I may put the secondary spawnrooms down there or something. The area circled in red is technically an archway that runs above the lower ground.

4) Good idea. There's one thing though, I don't know if I want the rivers to be fully traversible as that may make the map too open. A fall from the bridges over the rivers (the bridges in the center, not the mill bridges) should kill the player (hey, it's a shallow river). I may fence some areas. Not sure yet.

5) Thanks! *again*

 

[StoneFrog]

Expanding on it a bit more. The smaller red and blue buildings I've added are going to be the secondary spawns for when your team has advanced farther through the map. I'm trying to decide right now if I want the middle CPs to be the watermills (and put the final ones as spytech bases behind them) or if the map would be a bit more space-friendly if the middle CPs were between the watermills and center CP. Ideas?

Also, I can't for the life of me decide what'd make an interesting terrain/building to house the center CP. I mean, what on earth would be built on a cliff surrounded by raging rivers but still tied in closely enough with the watermill theme to not warrant a map renaming?

 

[Mar]

A helicopter evac pad would make sense and go with a spy tech base and a mill.

And definitely make a spytech base behind, other wise the center Cp becomes too small. Or you can make the mills the final point and stretch out the middle a bit. And don't forget to have a height advantage in the middle, just like granary has the crates, badlands has the train carts, and well has the point.

 

[StoneFrog]

The only concern I have if I make a point behind the mills is that going from the center CP to the mills may be a bit lengthy. You'd probably have an updated spawn by the time you have to attack that point, but in the general scheme of things it seems a bit lengthy.

 

[Mar]

Maybe do it like granar and have the forward spawn after the center, but before the second point? Like in the L shape house.

 

[StoneFrog]

As in Red's secondary spawn being between the center CP and Blue's watermill?

 

[Mar]

The black outlines is the spy tech base behind the mills.
The green dots are the cp's.
And the orange numbers are the spawns.

So the first spawn in the spytech building, the second spawn is before Blu's builiding by the mid, and the 3rd spawn is in Red's building by the mid.

The general rule of thumb for 5 cp push maps is to have it so you walk a bit, then reach the point your defending, then walk a bit and reach the point you're attacking. (As demonstrated by Badlands, Granary, and Well.) Except for you first spawn point.

 

[StoneFrog]

Wouldn't the second spawn be in the smaller Blue building? Or would it be better if the spawn rooms weren't shared by the teams.

 

[Mar]

No, make it a bit behind or else it will be too close to the middle, and too hard for the losing team to re-take. Look at what Valve does in badlands. That's what you want to do.

 

[StoneFrog]

Hmm. The scale is still a bit messy at points. Selon-toi, how long do you think it should take a Scout to go from one final CP to the other? Should distances between points get shorter as the map progresses, or longer?

 

[Mar]

I really don't know. WHOOF! I'm tired. Let me try out some runs on badlands and granary and I'll give you the times on Tues.

PS. I got to finish my science fair. Shit's due in 2 days.

 

[StoneFrog]

Well, unfortunately, due to a bunch of real life conflicts right now and some desires to realize other map ideas, I think I'd like to find a way to kick this map back onto the CTF track.

It's definitely way too big to be a CTF map, unless I housed the intel in the mills and added in more buildings to help in defending. I could build off of the watermill area and turn it into a full-blown canalzone (pun intended), or I could streamline the "No-Man's Land", but to do that, I think I'd have to most importantly merge the two rivers, but I wouldn't want to do that since it pisses off physics utterly unless I come up with some excuse such as the watermills being built simultaneously (although the river WILL be stagnant ingame).

 

[Bermuda Cake]

Well, for a second building, how about a windmill (for red)? Goes quite well with the water mill theme, there are lots of grain props to go with it, and it offers some good height advantage opportuinties.
And for blue, mabye a generator building coming from the watermilll with a spytech theme? I'm thinking hydro.

 

[Mar]

So do you want this to be a CP map or a CTF map? Also, a good CTF map is a very big one. Most people don't get this, and that's why we haven't seen a good CTF map yet.

 

[Apom]

So do you want this to be a CP map or a CTF map? Also, a good CTF map is a very big one. Most people don't get this, and that's why we haven't seen a good CTF map yet.

Pretty much everybody agrees that the best CTF map out there is Turbine, which is also the smallest. You may want to reconsider that position. Or produce a very big CTF map that's actually good to prove us wrong

@StoneFrog : maybe you could turn this into a 3-CP map. Look at Oilfield for an example of a successfull map in that format.