cp_gydan

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by andysss456, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    cp_gydan

    Current Version: Final Version
    Map Type: Control Point / Attack and Defend / One Stage
    Recommended Players: 12-24
    Compile Time: 16 Minutes 31 Seconds
    BSP – 35 Seconds
    VIS – 1 Minute 33 Seconds
    RAD (LDR) – 7 Minutes 2 Seconds
    RAD (HDR) – 7 Minutes 13 Seconds

    Final change log:

    - Added nodraw brushes in front of the blue gates to prevent shots being fired through before the round starts.
    - General cosmetic additions such as lighting, models, etc.
    - Added playerclips to prevent certain get under the map exploits.
    - Changed the gate from D to A so that it kills anyone who tries to stand in the way and keep it open.
    - Widened some doors to make it easier to move through.
    - Added areaportals and occluders in an attempt to fix fps lowering areas.

    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/170303.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/170305.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/170306.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/170307.jpg

    Here is the fpsbanana download of the final: http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/74460

    ======================

    Changelog for Beta 1:

    - Altered spawn times: starts at 7 blue - 11 red. When A is capped 7 blue – 10 red, C is capped 6 blue – 9 red.
    - Added gates to the blue tunnels to prevent rocket spam and spawn camping the tunnel.
    - No longer able to build stuff on the edge of the cliff face in order to stop griefer engies from building teleporters and having people jump off.
    - General cosmetic additions such as lighting, models, wires, and brushes.
    - Stopped sentries from being able to shoot through the two trees that are in the play area.
    - Added a second exit for the blue forward spawn.
    - Added a sniper spot facing toward C (in the building that leads to the B bridge).
    - Added nobuild in certain areas, to prevent unfair advantages for red (mainly the blue tunnel).
    - Cut out a window so there is another exit into C.

    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161242.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161244.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161245.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161247.jpg

    The stats for b1: http://psychostats.canardplus.com/map.php?id=109 (Thanks again Flubber)

    ======================

    Change log for Alpha 2:

    - Added nobuild in the tunnel that red drops out of to A, as well as on all stairs and cap points.
    - Added some models to block a sniper view of the A cap all the way in the back of B.
    - Added some props to the right of the A – B tunnel (as you enter B) to block a sentry spot overpowering that exit.
    - Now compiled with HDR and soundscapes.
    - Added in more directional arrows.
    - The D capture point and surrounding area have changed semi-drastically.
    - Changed the one chokepoint to C from B to stop red pyros from controlling the area, as well as blue camping the red spawn.
    - A few models and other visual effects have been applied to increase the look.
    - Just added a hotfix to make the respawn waves 8 seconds blue and 11 seconds red.

    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156895.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156896.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156897.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156899.jpg

    The stats for a2_a: http://psychostats.canardplus.com/map.php?id=77 (Thanks Flubber)

    ======================

    This control point map spawned from the simple idea that I wanted to use the new alpine setting with an elevation element involved. My basic thought was simple: an attack and defend map that has blue gradually moving upward as they went forward. I simply love attack and defend maps; it really gives each team a defined role, unlike 5 point maps and the like. Instead of doing a 3 stage like Dustbowl, I decided on one stage with four points. Another thing that I tried to accomplish was tight spaces with quick chaotic action. The important thing is, every class has a role in this map, and there are open enough areas that it’s not a pyro feeding ground.

    Each of the points are named A through D. Similar to Dustbowl, red drops out of a tunnel to get to A faster at the beginning of the map. When A is captured the door closes blocking the tunnel. The design of the map is similar to that of a horse shoe. It is a U in simplest terms. I have been testing this map with my clan on our server and from what I can tell, the map is pretty fun, so I’m not worried about major layout problems. What I’m looking for in feedback is mainly small changes or additions you would like seen, and if there is a major fault in my layout then please tell me. The visuals at this stage in development aren’t finished and therefore do not need feedback, unless something just looks horrendous.

    If you’re looking at me and asking who I am, I’m Andrew Schulte. I’ve been working on level design for the past 2 and half years, and I have yet to release anything, but this is a momentous occasion. I have never really gotten this far, as to show people. Every time I get anywhere I trash the map because it’s not good enough. So yeah if you have any other personal questions, go ahead and ask, but for now let’s focus on the map.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
  2. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Hello, you should consider putting some screens in this thread, this would tease people to look on FPSBanana.

    Didn't try it myself, but Flubber gave you some feedback (hint : a "low" player is a private joke on our servers ;) )
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2008
  3. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/maps/155106.jpg
    This one feels the best out of the screenshots although it looks a little empty at ground level, a running theme for improvement over your entire map is 'more props'. whilst this area doesnt need many more it does need a few on the ground (like plants small rocks or other small props like buckets and tyres).

    http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/maps/155108.jpg
    This area looks a little bland, not many props, no overlays and not a huge deal of variance. The bridge made of the loose pannels looks very artifical, and particularly because you've used it in another area of the map I think you should vastly reduce the amount of gaps in both of them, try having two or three large blocks of that texture and then three or four single slats to suppliment the larger blocks so it looks rickety but not completely rag-tag.
    Unless the natural flow of the game leads the attackers up onto the second level before they get to the cap point I'd suggest you add a ramp up the side from ground level.
    The fog setting looks quite high and the lighting doesn't look like it matches the alpine skybox (might be the lack of HDR) look here - http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Sky_list - to find reasonable settigns to use, or use a decompiled version to look at the settings in that. I'd also urge you to use HDR for later releases, if you're finding the HDR superbright go to the front page and use the tag cloud at the bottom of the page to find the tonemap_controller settings.

    Overall its looking like a really good start, make sure you post screenshots directly for maximum feedback ;) and use this - http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=add&cat=1 to get it uploaded on this site ;)
     
  4. laghlagh

    laghlagh L6: Sharp Member

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    You should name it cp_gydan_a1, the absolyte final should be called cp_gydan.

    Red text connected to red dots, etc.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2008
  5. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks for the feedback everyone, i don't have the time now to respond to most of it, but it is cp_gydan_a1, when you download it, that's what the map file is, i'm just using the same fps map page for every version i guess, don't need an older version to download when the new on is out.
     
  6. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Okay, this evening I'll try to post some screenshot with gameplay feedback. Overall, the setting is nice, with this deadly cute little zone you can jump in downside. But let's concentrate on gameplay first ;)

    From the last test session (24p), the defence is quite strong. They were two issues.
    After A is capped, there are two hallways leading to B. The left one (from attacking side) leads to a larger area and can be heavily defended. The right one, which then gives access down and upstairs is quite narrow in the stairs zone, and can be effectively camped by a single demo and little help from pyros. That made is area quite unpassable in the second round. The first one was nearly won by BLU, but the server was not full at beginning. Consider anyway that the defending team played quite effectively.

    In the D area, one of the two spawn exits leads directly on a corridor used by BLU, and that's a bad thing. BLU are tempted to spawnkill while red can mount sentries/lob grenades with their supply only 2 feet behind. You should consider cutting the direct line sight here. The other access for upstair is very narrow and can be easily controlled. Actually, the BLU team has to completely overwhelm the reds to cap D.

    On a side note, you have playerclip on most roofs there, and it's quite puzzling to rocket jumpers. Perhaps consider clipping only the highest parts of the roof, and let the sides be used by soldiers ?

    Keep the good job !
     
  7. flubber

    flubber L4: Comfortable Member

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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  8. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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  9. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    I love the heat map, it's fantastic, much thanks. So basically the tunnels to B, and the whole D area need to be redesigned, at least a little bit. So it's an easily defended map. This is a lot to think about. I'll have to plan out my next move on what i should change. I love all the help you guys have put in, please keep it up. What if along side some possible layout chagnes with the tunnels to A i also lower the spawn time for Blue when A is capped?

    As for D, i kinda of want to drastically change that area. I'm not really sure what i'm going to do with it yet, but i'm sure it'll be different.
     
  10. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    Positive Ratings:
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    I just uploaded Alpha 2, please play the map to see the changes in depth, try to host it so that you can judge the gameplay, since it's my main focus.

    Change log for Alpha 2:

    - Added nobuild in the tunnel that red drops out of to A, as well as on all stairs and cap points.
    - Added some models to block a sniper view of the A cap all the way in the back of B.
    - Added some props to the right of the A – B tunnel (as you enter B) to block a sentry spot overpowering that exit.
    - Now compiled with HDR and soundscapes.
    - Added in more directional arrows.
    - The D capture point and surrounding area have changed semi-drastically.
    - Changed the one chokepoint to C from B to stop red pyros from controlling the area, as well as blue camping the red spawn.
    - The respawn waves are now 10 seconds blue, 14 seconds red.
    - A few models and other visual effects have been applied to increase the look.

    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156895.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156896.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156897.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/156899.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  11. laghlagh

    laghlagh L6: Sharp Member

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    Improvements on the visual parts!
     
  12. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Third and fourth screen, you would want to set a different lighting origin for the track section under the building. The sudden black color is disturbing.

    Well, see you soon on the canardpc server to test this build !
     
  13. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    Yeah, there are a few visual defects that popped up this time, i'll mark them down to fix for the next version.
     
  14. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    The new layout for D is wayyyy better. You have to tweak a bit your respawn times but you already know that. With faster respawn, this map is going to be really enjoyable. Keep it up !
     
  15. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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  16. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Still a slight advantage toward RED, if they know the mapn, that is.

    A is quite hard, but ok as I can tell, B and C can be heavily protected.
    There are some nice places to set a forward spawn in, buildings with few entrances.

    B itself offers some shelters to attackers that could slip into it. AS in most maps, the level of the demomen makes the difference. But playing more close fighting classes is still possible.

    For C, the only tricky spot is the sentry that can be placed on the end of the way that allows red to go to C. It fire backward to the attackers that use the right (from their perspective) direction, leaving almost only the left one available. This plus the multi slope needed to go from the right, and the proximity of the red positions creates a harsh imbalance between the two possibilities.

    D itself is a bit crammed inside, it can render defense more difficult than it should. The surrounding zone works well

    And please, more zone bordered that the "death o' matic" falling zone ! pushing hostiles down there provides gold moments ;)
     
  17. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

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    Hey just played this on theville's custom server. This map is pure awesome. The layout is fantastic and pacing is really good. Both sides felt like they had their own advantages/disadvantages but they balanced out in the end. I honestly don't have anything to add unless I play it a lot more and find some subtle improvement or the like.

    But yeah right now this map is really good.
     
  18. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

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    Positive Ratings:
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    Thanks a lot Zwiffle, even if you were blinded by the newness of the map. there are a few things i think i should address that could be problematic. D seems way to easy to cap, and blue's foward spawn likely need a second exit.

    So i was wondering if you guys had a problem with my adding a second onto blue's respawn time when they cap C? to make D harder? Or i could add a few seconds onto the D cap time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2008
  19. andysss456

    andysss456 L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Beta 1 has been released!

    - Altered spawn times: starts at 7 blue - 11 red. When A is capped 7 blue – 10 red, C is capped 6 blue – 9 red.
    - Added gates to the blue tunnels to prevent rocket spam and spawn camping the tunnel.
    - No longer able to build stuff on the edge of the cliff face in order to stop griefer engies from building teleporters and having people jump off.
    - General cosmetic additions such as lighting, models, wires, and brushes.
    - Stopped sentries from being able to shoot through the two trees that are in the play area.
    - Added a second exit for the blue forward spawn.
    - Added a sniper spot facing toward C (in the building that leads to the B bridge).
    - Added nobuild in certain areas, to prevent unfair advantages for red (mainly the blue tunnel).
    - Cut out a window so there is another exit into C.

    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161242.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161244.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161245.jpg
    http://image.fpsbanana.com/ss/maps/161247.jpg

    Here is the fpsbanana download of the beta: http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/70472
     
  20. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    Make D look like something special. Right now it is just a shack, when it is supposed to be your final point. Perhaps add something that will make it look final? I'm thinking you can put the laser from Gravelpit on top of it. That would look really badass, as well as give it the look that its the final point of your map.