Coulee

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by PL-7764, May 19, 2010.

  1. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    koth_coulee is a Hydro-inspired KotH map taking place in a facility near a hydroelectric dam. RED and BLU are competing for control of this small portion of the entire hydroelectric facility, for goodness knows what reasons.

    The name comes from Grand Coulee, the name of the real-life dam on the Columbia River in eastern WA that sort-of inspired me to make a Hydro-themed map.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  2. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

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    That looks like some really cool architecture around the cap zone!

    I cant wait to see it played!
     
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  3. DjD

    DjD L5: Dapper Member

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    These screenshots look quite amazing, especially the building and bridge on screenshot 1 and 4.

    keep the work up!
     
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  4. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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    First off, I loved the architecture, it's very well built and designed. I ran around the map and played it with bots for a while, and I enjoyed it quite a lot.

    First things first: [​IMG]
    Why are the lights yellow? :p Also consider using a dev_reflective texture for the floor instead of that blue to make it slightly easier to see where you're going.

    [​IMG]
    I found that sniping was VERY powerful on this map, a single sniper standing on a raised part of the map can cover all of the enemy's exits.

    [​IMG]
    Consider adding another, lower door that light classes can come out of without being sniped. Also, some cover on those walkways might help block snipers, but make sure to leave gaps so the people on the bridge don't have complete cover.

    I found that scouts were completely useless on this map, because it's too open, they can't take advantage of height differences easily and they had nowhere to flank from without being very obvious about where they were.
    It also seemed to promote spamming nades+stickies onto the point as demoman when underneath and trying to attack upwards onto it.
     
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  5. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    I was about to say lethal sightlines, but ninja ninja ninja...
     
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  6. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

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    Had a wee run through myself, and played with some bots.

    Inside you should probably change the floor texture, so not everything is red.
    [​IMG]

    One good sniper could probably lock down all the exits, and if not one, then two could.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    At mid I felt once you were down, you're probably not getting up without getting killed. I feel you should probably add a ramp to both sides that goes up onto the side paths.

    [​IMG]

    It was fun playing it with bots, nothing seemed too OP apart from the sniping positions, and soldiers that destroyed you if you fell into the pit. Your health and ammo placement feels good right now. One thing I did notice is a distinct lack in good engineer positions, some more cover for them might help. Hope to see it on the server in an impromptu or a gameday soon!
     
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    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  7. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback! :)

    To be honest I have no idea why all the lights ended up yellow. :p I did some fiddling with the settings though, and found out that they all had env_lightglow entities on them that were set to "255 255 182," giving them that Jarate-esque tint. I guess it's the result of my using light setups from the Light Effects Gallery .vmf in the downloads section, which for whatever reason has the lights that color. Might have to edit that file to get white lights from the get-go. Anyway, they're all set to solid white now.

    None of the current textures are permanent of course, but I've changed the interior floors to "Reflectivity 70%" anyway to aid in navigation until they get detailed (they'll probably be concrete in the end).

    Yeah, the sightlines are something I was worried about. I'm adding some more cover on the bridge in about the same places you drew it in. Here's a Hammer preview:

    [​IMG]

    You can also see that I've added more routes leading out of the pit. ;)

    In addition to sheltering the bridge, the new cover seems to eliminate snipers' ability to see all 3 top-level exits at once, but from the sides they can sometimes sort-of cover both the side ones if they're at a certain angle (not as well as before, but can still see to both). Still working on that...

    Currently I'm working on those side entrances at pit-level, then I'll be able to compile and re-test it all. Here's a preview, though it's just the floor right now:

    [​IMG]

    Other smaller changes are being made for a2, including the whole pit floor being shifted down slightly - it didn't line up on the larger Hammer grid sizes as everything else does, and it was bugging me. I'd say you can probably expect the next version to be up sometime today.
     
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  8. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    def. seems like only 4 ways to the point is baaad. that other ramp is perfect!
    adding more exits is good too. those sniping positions look insane.
     
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  9. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    The layout would be a lot more interesting if it wasn't symmetrical along both X and Y and was mirrored like Viaduct, Pipeline, etc. As of right now, taking the left or right exit offers no distinct advantage/disadvantage.
     
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  10. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    ^ Good point; I've got it so that the side entrances are no longer symmetrical for the next version. One side is now closer to the edge of the map and has a barrier to keep snipers from aiming at anyone coming out. The new pit-level tunnels are also on opposite sides of each team's base (right of the facade for RED, left flr BLU).

    I was going to go for some rotation symmetry, but since mirror symmetry is what numerous KOTH maps use, I'll give it a try. Still not a huge fan of it since it requires slightly different gameplay depending on which team you're on, but we'll see how it works...
     
  11. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    A2 is now up. Big changes, all listed in the changelog. Thanks again everyone for feedback so far! :)

    I played this with bots for a while, and I discovered that while snipers do still have some large-ish sightlines in this version, they have to be vigilant as enemies can easily take them out since their sniping positions are not far from combat focal points. It's hard for them to camp for long as a result. Their available sightlines are also greatly reduced now. It's still possible for them to cover an exit from some points, but since there are now FIVE exits from each base that's not a big problem. Plus it's very difficult to cover more than one exit at a time while you're watching your back enough to stay alive.

    The matches I played were quite action-packed, with the point tending to trade hands at least once per round. It can be defended well enough to win, but is hard enough to defend that no match is ever quite predictable. I think that's a good thing as it added excitement and suspense, I hope others think so too...
     
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    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  12. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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    I played through this, I had a LOT of fun playing it with bots. There aren't any obvious major problems, however I didn't like how people on the cap could see the enemies' main exit very easily.
    There was perhaps a tad too much cover on the ground, but the extra stairs and new exits from the base are really well put together, and they've great for "covert" exits.
    Only other thing I can say, is I didn't like how it's mirrored, not rotated. I can't see a geometrical reason why it should be mirrored :s
    Good work though, make sure to put this into gameday! :)
     
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  13. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Sorry for the bit of delay in getting a3 ready, I've been sidetracked quite a bit. On top of that I've tried making a3 rotationally symmetrical (this is what I originally envisioned for it before trying mirrored, and it was suggested again so I want again to see how it works), but I keep finding more and more things that need to be changed to get the symmetry right after flipping one side of the map. I think I've got it now though. I'm gonna playtest my freshly compiled a3 with bots and see if there are any glaring issues, and if not I'll put it up today. :)
     
  14. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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  15. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Version a3 is up now finally, with all the issues I've had just trying to get it functional finally resolved! :) (EDIT: Screenshots now up!)

    As before, all changes are listed in the changelog.

    I looked long and hard at the main doors in the center of each facade to decide if they should move to not be visible from the point/each other, and while playtesting again I found I was able to snipe someone leaving the opposite base right as both teams surged out of their doors. So the base doors are now at pit level. This looked dull at first though, so they now protrude from the base a bit as well, plus they have frames.

    There's an incorrect texture on the ceiling in RED's tunnel, as I discovered while taking screenshots, but seeing as I did an entire compile just fixing other incorrect textures - and this is still in dev-texture stage to boot, so no textures are permanent - I've decided to leave it since it doesn't affect gameplay. I'll fix it for the next version.

    Thanks again for the feedback everyone! :thumbup1:
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  16. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    I haven't touched TF2 in a few days, but I went back in today and made a version a3a, which cleans up the incorrect textures in the RED tunnel and moves a barrier in the pit that was on the wrong side. Also, I turned the two halves of the bridge and the center platform into func_details, decreasing compile time immensely (PortalFlow literally went from ~270 seconds to 1 :O) and improving in-game performance.
     
  17. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    A4 released!

    I started detailing in this version. The spawns and center are partially detailed now, but both will have more done to them as time goes on.

    Gameplay-wise, this version eliminates a few positons that demos and soldiers could potentially use to get above the battlefield and become nigh-invincible while being able to see and hit anyone anywhere.

    Performance-wise, this version has a few more things func_detailed, and also has areaportals! And for once in a map I made, they work! :O

    I'm gonna submit this version for human playtesting. I think it's pretty balanced and fun right now, but that was only with bots so I gotta see what humans do to know for sure.

    More feedback is always appreciated...! :)
     
  18. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    a4a released. Very minor fixes, but important-ish ones.

    This version is currently signed up for this week's Möbius Void playtest, so hopefully it runs there and I can get some feedback/observe how humans behave on it. I really want to know how well my more recent changes have been working... I think they're good, but then again it's my map, so obviously there's some bias. :p Plus all I've played with are bots, so I have no experience on it playing with humans yet...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
  19. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    updated screenshots?
     
  20. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    All the screens are about the same as what's there now, but I suppose I could grab a new one for the spawn to replace #6 now that there are team logos on the things over the doors (those were the "missing/broken overlays"). Nothing else is really different enough from a4 to a4a to be able to see a difference though. Will get one of the slightly updated spawn, should be up in a few minutes...

    EDIT: Done! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010