Contest #6: Voting Thread

Discussion in 'Contests' started by Ravidge, Jun 8, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TheCaptain

    TheCaptain L1: Registered

    Messages:
    6
    Positive Ratings:
    7
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Breakout - - - - -
    Canyonfodder 9 7 9 9 9
    Copperhead - - - - -
    Desertion - - - - -
    Frozen Assets - - - - -
    Mojave 8 9 9 8 7
    Pilolukpass 2 1 4 3 1
    Powderhorn 7 7 6 7 7
    Relay 6 7 6 6 7
    Sekhmet 8 7 8 8 7
    Ship 1 1 1 4 2
    Slush 8 9 7 7 8
    Zig 7 6 9 8 7


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Clocktower 7 6 8 6 7
    Croissant 7 7 7 7 8
    Omen 8 8 7 7 8
    Process 8 7 7 9 7
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  2. shinokorosha

    shinokorosha L1: Registered

    Messages:
    12
    Positive Ratings:
    8
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout 3 5 2 5 2
    Canyonfodder 8 7 10 6 10
    Copperhead 4 2 0 5 0
    Desertion 2 3 2 2 3
    Frozen Assets 1 3 0 2 0
    Mojave 5 6 5 7 5
    Pilolukpass 5 7 6 6 5
    Powderhorn 5 4 4 5 3
    Relay 10 8 9 10 9
    Sekhmet 4 3 5 2 1
    Ship 7 7 8 9 10
    Slush 4 2 0 6 2
    Zig 9 9 8 9 10


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Clocktower 5 4 5 3 7
    Croissant 10 10 10 10 10
    Omen 10 9 9 10 10
    Process 10 10 9 10 10
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  3. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Messages:
    1,769
    Positive Ratings:
    1,517

    subjectivity only goes so far. thanks for presumably voting based on just one round on each map if even that. what are you even basing your technical ratings off? did you clipcheck each map?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  4. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    726
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    I'll admit that it looks pretty random to me. I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion but that just seems way too inconsistent.
    Also 0 is not within the acceptable range (1-10) :p
     
  5. Walker

    Walker L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    85
    Positive Ratings:
    40
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout - - - - -
    Canyonfodder - - - - -
    Copperhead 8 8 6 9 10
    Desertion 7 8 7 9 10
    Frozen Assets 3 2 1 7 9
    Mojave 8 7 9 9 10
    Pilolukpass 3 3 5 9 10
    Powderhorn - - - - -
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet 9 9 9 9 10
    Ship - - - - -
    Slush 7 7 7 9 10
    Zig 8 8 10 9 10


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Clocktower 6 7 7 9 10
    Croissant 8 10 8 9 10
    Omen 8 9 8 9 10
    Process 8 10 8 9 10


    Not finished yet obviously. If I rated a map in some areas but not others, it's because I've played it, but not in the past few days. Giving stuff 9s in performance because it still gives me my usual 25-40 fps, but it hasn't magically cured it. 10s in technical because I didn't run into any issues with it while playing. tbh I don't see why it's a matter of public vote; either the map has something broken or it doesn't, there isn't really much subjectivity to it.

    I'll put in individual comments when I've got all the proper ratings out of the way.

    Ugh how I wish voting was done on a 1-100 scale. I do prefer Croissant to Process, but not by enough that I'd give Process a lower score or Croissant a higher one.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  6. Moose

    Moose L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    312
    Positive Ratings:
    299
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Breakout - - - - -
    Canyonfodder - - - - -
    Copperhead 10 6 8 10 8
    Desertion 7 6 6 8 9
    Frozen Assets - - - - -
    Mojave 8 6 8 10 10
    Pilolukpass - - - - -
    Powderhorn - - - - -
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet - - - - -
    Ship - - - - -
    Slush X X X X X
    Zig 7 9 10 9 9


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Clocktower 8 8 6 9 8
    Croissant 9 9 8 9 9
    Omen 9 9 6 8 8
    Process - - 8 9 8


    Copperhead
    I love this map. Despite the flaws I know of, it has always been incredibly fun to play on. My issues have more to do with balance and aesthetics than anything else. It seems like the map is way too easy for blu to win, and even though I've seen every stage defended for a little while, I hardly ever see red keep blu back until the timer runs out.

    I think your detailing is fantastic, but overall it feels sort of bland. It seems like you focused on geometry, and left out smaller details like pipes, wires, or overlays. Still, the amount of effort you put into your detail is immense, and it shows.

    Desertion
    I have fun playing on desertion, although I think the flow on some parts of the map is off. Your balance seems to favor blu a lot, with red winning less than one third of the time. Although when red does defend, attacking can start to feel like going up against a brick wall.

    A lot of your detailing feels pretty empty, buildings don't seem to have much reason to exist, and your geometry is pretty boring. I don't think you did anything wrong, and I enjoy your 3d sky, but for the most part it seems lacking.

    Mojave
    I like Mojave, I think the layout is nice, and I generally enjoy playing on it. Stage 1 seems much easier to defend than stage 2, though, and if blu manages to get to the second stage, red is pretty helpless. Your win ratio shows red winning one third of the time, and again, almost all of that is from stage one.

    Your detailing is pretty fantastic, and honestly my only issue is a lack of any real 3D sky. Otherwise it's pretty nearly perfect.

    Zig
    Zig is fun, and the layout works, but I also feel like it's a bit uninspired. Areas around both points don't feel all that dynamic, and although you do have some interesting heights, almost everything is entirely linear. I just don't see any really innovative areas in your map, thinks like copperhead's 2-1 point, with an open wall on the side, and a route reaching all the way around. Your balance seems to be perfect for stage 1 of a multistage map, but only being allowed to judge stage 1 means having to deal with losing on red a lot more, which makes that team less fun to play on.

    looks purty

    Clocktower
    Clocktower is alright, I don't enjoy everything on this map, but I have fun on last, and the rest of the points are enjoyable.

    Detailing is okay, although you did some really odd things that don't make a lot of sense.

    Croissant
    Your layout design around points is brilliant and fun, although I have an issue with how huge some of the less used routes are.

    Detailing is nice, but some things just seem too unlikely.

    Omen
    All of your points are fun to play on, and my only issue is that the flow seems a little bit off in a couple of areas.

    As for detailing, a lot of areas feel empty, and some buildings seem purposeless. I think you pulled the theme off nicely, but it also seems like a really unlikely place for either team to stage a fight.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
  7. neo1616

    neo1616 L1: Registered

    Messages:
    1
    Positive Ratings:
    7
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout 6 8 6 7 4
    Canyonfodder 7 7 7 6 9
    Copperhead 9 9 9 9 9
    Desertion 6 8 6 8 5
    Frozen Assets 4 4 3 4 4
    Mojave 9 8 10 10 9
    Pilolukpass - - - - -
    Powderhorn 5 5 8 6 8
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet - - - - -
    Ship - - - - -
    Slush - - - - -
    Zig 6 8 8 6 8


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Clocktower 8 8 6 7 7
    Croissant 8 7 9 7 8
    Omen 7 7 8 8 7
    Process 8 8 8 9 9
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
  8. osiem

    osiem L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    89
    Positive Ratings:
    135
    I hope there's still some time, I'm gonna edit my scores as I play the maps more.

    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical Notes
    Breakout 4 6 4 - - This map is choky. This is my biggest complaint, almost every time I've played it, there was a big choke between A and B and then before C. Actually I like A's layout the most, it just lacks some interesting solutions, some kind of nice height variety or a unusual flank. Also it's a shame that routes to C are symmetrical, it's completely not interesting when you choose between two identical ways to the point. Balance is pretty good, but when on blu, you don't really feel that it's getting harder. Class balance is okay, but unfortunately it doesn't mean that every class plays good, in that case every class plays pretty average. When it comes to detailing, we should judge not only the theme, but, what's more important, how well the theme is realized. In your map, there are actually two things, that make me feel like I'm in prison - cells and watchtowers in that open area. Other that that, it's just some big concrete building. And what is a big 'Crummy Burger' poster doing on the wall of prison? Things like that make you feel that something's wrong. The detailing is decent, but not finished and not interesting. This is an average map. You've learnt sth and got lots of feedback, I'm sure next one will be better. :>
    Canyonfodder - - 5 - - -
    Copperhead - - 6 - - -
    Desertion - - 6 - - -
    Frozen Assets - - 2 - - -
    Mojave 8 7 7 - - Really fun map, I like 1-1 the most, it's a great first point of 3 stage map, 1-2 needs to be a bit easier to attack, and 2-2 needs to be a bit harder and to have a higher ceiling, cause rocket jumping here is a bit annoying. Other than that, I really like the flow, it took me just a few minutes to learn the map's layout, class balance is good (only scout is a bit useless in some areas), some interesting gameplay solutions. Detailing is nice, i like it, also the lighting makes your map unique. Unfortunately you were in hurry and didn't manage to do better dispalcement and 3d sky. Really solid map, some more time and will be great!
    Pilolukpass 3 2 3 - - This map is just not designed well, balance sucks, there are huge sightlines and the layout is really complicated and just strange, I've played this map a few times and I still don't feel like I know where I'm going on this map. First of all, you need to change the way you're building your areas, don't just make large rectangular corridor and fill it with props/balconies/anything, try to create sth interesting piece by piece. Also, the sewer or sth like that is way too long and pointless. And overscaled. It's good that you're trying, but before you build sth yourself, try to take a close look at some good valve/custom maps to get the general idea of how the maps are built. Also, the detailing is plain and looks like you didn't have any concept - just textured geometry, some displacements, some props and that's it. Try to get the main idea of how do you want your map to feel and then get to detailing, don't just throw things in here and there. Also don't use HL2 textures. This is not a good map, but keep on trying! :)
    Powderhorn 6 7 7 - - This is a fun map, well designed, but unfortunately nothing more, there's no area where you think 'oh, that's pretty clever solution, I love this piece!' Balance is pretty good, I really like what's going on between blu spawn and A, but A building itself is a bit to simple and boring. Detailing - just the same, good, nice, solid, but nothing more, not a one really awesome place, some of the displacement's are a bit not finished. Also there's nothing interesting outside of play area, just trees, trees and trees. Generally, good map, but could be much better, it's a shame you're not working on it anymore.
    Relay - - - - - -
    Sekhmet - - - - - -
    Ship - - 2 - - -
    Slush - - - - - -
    Zig 7 7 9 - - This is a good 1st stage of a 3 stage a/d map, but when judging it like a finished map, it just feels repetitive. I like the balance, every class is somehow useful, the whole map is a bit easier for blu and that's how first stage should be balanced. I like 1st point more than 2nd. In my opinion your middle route to 2nd should have some building or at least some more covered, cause it can be sniped easily and that's pretty annoying. Also, 2nd point lacks height variety. Anyway, it plays good and if your 2nd and 3rd stages will be as good as this one, this is gonna be a popular map. Now detailing - I love the climate you've managed to create! All your custom content fits the TF2 style very well and still looks different than any other theme. Rock props are awesome, trees are awesome, crystals are awesome, 2d sky is very climatic, you've also paid attention to out of play areas and that's great. Your map breathes and is really believable. Only a few minor bugs keep me from giving you a 10. The grass detail is missing, there are too many 'little cliffs', if you know what I mean, you should replace them with slopes, that unfortunate rock in the middle route from 1st to 2nd point fades too quickly. Also, I think that paint patch overlays on rocky ground looks odd, I know Valve also sometimes does it, but it don't think it's good. Still, your map looks super sexy, and if you'll fix those visuals bugs, it's gonna be one of the best looking TF2 maps, including Valve ones!


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical Notes
    Clocktower - - - - - -
    Croissant 8 9 8 - - I love how the classes are balanced - you've actually managed to make a map where both scout and heavy are strong, also the points themselves are great for rocket/sticky jumping, really interesting height variation. My only complaints are that the last point is too easy for ninjacapping and some routes are a little bit overscaled. Really fun map though! Detailing is also good and done with style, it's great that you've paid some attention to 3d sky, your 3d sky is not just a nice addition, it makes the map breathe and feel believable! There are a few underdetailed places and some little props fading too quickly, but other that that, looks really good. In my opinion this map has really big potential, it just needs some more time to polish it and it'll be great! :>
    Omen 7 8 7 - - -
    Process 6 7 7 - - -
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  9. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

    Messages:
    1,870
    Positive Ratings:
    1,130
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout 7 7 6 7 8
    Canyonfodder 8 7 6 8 8
    Copperhead 8 8 8 8 7
    Desertion 8 8 6 6 7
    Frozen Assets 5 6 3 4 7
    Mojave 8 8 7 8 8
    Pilolukpass 5 6 6 7 7
    Powderhorn 8 7 7 8 7
    Relay 8 8 9 7 8
    Sekhmet 7 8 7 8 8
    Ship 4 6 4 8 6
    Slush 7 7 6 7 7
    Zig 8 7 10 6 7


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Clocktower 7 8 6 6 7
    Croissant 7 8 8 7 6
    Omen 8 8 6 6 8
    Process 8 8 9 8 8


    If anyone cares to know why my votes are the way they are, I rated maps by giving them 8 in every category, 9 or 10 in some cases, then turning on crankymode and looking for reasons to take points away. For example, Croissants' technical rating started off as 8, got -1 for some lack of clipping I ran into and another -1 for water not being water, resulting in 6.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2011
  10. Doctor Paprika

    Doctor Paprika L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    150
    Positive Ratings:
    50
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout 4 6 5 7 7
    Canyonfodder 7 7 7 7 8
    Copperhead 9 9 8 8 8
    Desertion 8 7 6 8 8
    Frozen Assets - - - - -
    Mojave 7 8 7 8 8
    Pilolukpass 3 4 3 6 5
    Powderhorn - - - - -
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet 8 9 9 8 8
    Ship 5 5 2 6 6
    Slush 7 8 9 9 8
    Zig 9 8 10 9 8


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Clocktower 8 8 9 8 7
    Croissant 8 9 7 8 8
    Omen 7 8 7 8 8
    Process 8 9 8 9 9


    I know other people want a 1-100 scale, but I honestly have trouble telling whether I should give something a 6 or a 7, an 8 or a 9. Can't we just use letter grades? I guess they're different in Europe, but I'd rather give a map an F instead of split hairs between 3 and 4, or an A because I loved it but still think it isn't quite perfect and give it a 9.

    Also, I'll openly admit that I'm mainly basing my Technical scores on me just loading the maps and checking for bad clipping and dark spots and such and just sort of putting a rough figure to how well put together it seems, and my new computer is good enough where I can't tell much for Performance.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  11. Sel

    Sel Banned

    Messages:
    1,241
    Positive Ratings:
    1,119
    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Breakout 7 8 6 10 8
    Canyonfodder - - - - -
    Copperhead 8 9 7 10 10
    Desertion - - - - -
    Frozen Assets 1 1 1 10 8
    Mojave 9 9 10 10 10
    Pilolukpass - - - - -
    Powderhorn 7 7 7 10 10
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet - - - - -
    Ship 3 1 3 10 8
    Slush 9 10 7 10 10
    Zig 6 7 9 4 10


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Clocktower 7 7 8 10 10
    Croissant 6 5 5 10 10
    Omen 5 5 4 10 10
    Process - - - - -


    Rating Guide

    Since I'd just like to explain a little better what my rating scale is since it may differ from other people's I'll leave this here.

    Three and under represents a poor rating at best, and generally borders on unnacceptable.

    Threes and under I will consider under the quality threshold for it to be worth writing feedback, it should be obvious what is wrong and how to fix it.

    Four represents average or acceptable quality, but with (usually multiple) glaring flaws that lead to this rating.

    Five and six represent acceptable and reasonably decent quality, anything falling into this means there may be some glaring flaws present that result in work I would otherwise rate higher falling into this category.

    Seven and eight represent very good work with either a good uniform quality reaching this rating, or a better quality being let down by minor flaws.

    Nine and Ten represent the best I feel a map can be in each area, with very few minor flaws, or no flaws.

    Performance

    This category is rather silly in my opinion, as we all know Tf2 is still horribly optimized, and most modern PCs have trouble handling the game on maps that are perfectly optimized because of issues beyond their control, therefore if a map gives me a framerate consistent with other stock maps I will be giving them a 10, if not, I'll give it whatever I feel is appropriate for the performance it gave me.

    Also filesize seems kinda redundant here, more custom content = larger filesize so uh.

    Technical

    I haven't really had the opportunity to play maps as much as I'd have liked to since no one is playing them anymore on your servers, so I can't really consider my scores here particularly accurate for finding things that might be missed until a 10th playthrough or so I'll probably only deduct points here for major or obvious flaws.

    Feedback

    Breakout

    Visually incomplete, and still looks better than some of the detailed maps especially point B, which looks really cool geometry wise. Seems this didn't make it out of alpha, which is unfortunate since the gameplay seems nicely thought out, and all the points are actually interesting.

    Loses points in technical for the bar opening sounds in blue spawn during setup being intolerably loud.

    Copperhead


    Plays like a typical good A/D map with fun gameplay, with no major flaws.

    The visuals are alright too overall, but some areas look on par with alpha detailing, and could stand to be better. Also particles by the waterfall, but you already know this :p

    Frozen Assets

    Below the quality threshold for feedback. (It should be obvious why this map is bad)

    Mojave

    It's nice to see that some people know it's possible to change the global light colour. The lighting in this map is exceptional, and the geometry is nothing short of excellent.

    The map is also visually distinct, so extra points for standing out.

    Powderhorn

    Looks pretty good, loses points because red interiors don't look too hot, and because none of the other outdoor materials were modified to appear wet like the roof was and therefore look weird compared to their wet counterpart.

    Gameplaywise the points are interesting though, the map is rather small for a 2cp, otherwise though, nothing really wrong here, but nothing amazing either.

    Ship

    Below the quality threshold for feedback. (It should be obvious why this map is bad)

    The only reason I'm giving this a 3 in aesthetics is for the attempted innovation in visuals. Everything in here desperately needs work.

    Slush

    This map has some of the most interesting and innovative control point and pathi designs I've seen in any map I've ever played, I love it for that, especially since they all work out really well. Excellent work Moose. This is also the only map I feel really offers a role for every class, so I'm going to give it 10 in balance.

    Your visuals are more than good enough, but don't really rival zig or Mojave. I really hope your future maps continue this trend of innovative control points and paths that also have good gameplay.

    Zig

    Unfortunately the gameplay of this map doesn't reach the same standard of it's visual design, I realize this is supposed to be the first stage of a three stage map, but what was submitted to the contest needs to be judged as a 2cp gorge style, and doesn't hold up very well to that model.

    Visually this map is excellent, the only thing stopping it from reaching a 10 is the humongous amount of visual noise on the cliff/rock texture.

    Additionally, this map has got some big optimization issues, every time I play it the framerate is usually bordering on unplayable (10-15 fps).

    Clocktower

    Your first point is boring, both visually, and gameplay wise, just a huge area, with a generic point on a ramp.

    The rest of the map is a lot better though, mid is an excellent example of a tall and majestic landmark point, which I absolutely love to see, and plays more than well enough. Second is interesting too, but could stand to stick out a little more visually.

    (Also) The final (I think, the one with the dropdown) forward spawn doesn't do a good enough job directing players in the right direction. During all the rounds I've played on this I've seen other people, including myself, start running back towards 2nd, instead of forward.

    Additionally your displacements in the playing area, the chest high cliffs in particular look very uniform and boring, mix these up a little.

    Croissant

    Yes, we get it, you like making every single mid in your maps do the same two story central control point. This really hasn't been fun or particularly good for gameplay since Gullywash, and since you've done it so much, I can't really give it points for innovation either.

    However, your second point does offer some very interesting gameplay, shame it's entirely backwards from what it should be, instead of forcing players forward, it just sends them back, well actually, it only sends medics, snipers, spies, and heavies back, and most of these classes are forced to drop down to avoid dying. I really feel this could have been really interesting if you had forced players to press forward into last instead, if they committed to capping the point.

    Additionally huge sightlines, and open areas plague a lot of the map, and the only reason I'm giving this a point above Omen for gameplay is because I thought 2nd was actually really cool, despite being poorly executed.

    Your lighting is boring, and your geometry isn't much better. The colours aren't very interesting either, falling into the gray/white + team colour trap that a lot of maps seem to slip into.

    Omen

    Quite frankly I don't feel any of the points aside from maybe last play very well at all everything is cramped, no real rollout opportunities, or anything that would make this a good 5cp map in anything aside from pub server play.

    The visuals aren't much better, the lighting and geometry are both incredibly drab and boring, and the colour pallette is grays, browns, white and team colours.

    Finally,

    As much as I'd love to rate and review the other maps, it seems that your servers have been empty for the last few days, so it doesn't look like I'm going to have a chance to do so before the deadline, so I'm sorry to everyone else whose maps I didn't get a chance to play, there are definitely some of them that I honestly did want to check out.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 10
  12. Stereoparalax

    Stereoparalax L1: Registered

    Messages:
    2
    Positive Ratings:
    3
    I'm pretty sure that I played most of these but I only remember maybe half of them. I'm going to grade these based on the descriptions but I think performance and technical might have their definitions backwards

    Asymmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Techn ical
    Breakout 8 8 6 9 8
    Canyonfodder - - - - -
    Copperhead - - - - -
    Desertion - - - - -
    Frozen Assets 7 8 4 8 8
    Mojave - - - - -
    Pilolukpass - - - - -
    Powderhorn - - - - -
    Relay - - - - -
    Sekhmet 6 8 7 8 8
    Ship 5 6 8 5 5
    Slush 9 9 9 9 10
    Zig 8 7 10 7 10


    Symmetrical Maps Gameplay Balance Aesthetics Performance Technical
    Clocktower 7 10 9 9 9
    Croissant - - - - -
    Omen 9 10 10 8 8
    Process - - - - -


    I played more than the ones I rated but I can't put the names to the maps for some reason

    -Michael of North
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.