Class challenges map idea?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Brandished, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    I'm stuck in the design phase on this one. My map idea is an obstacle couse requiring each team to utilize every classes to win the round. Every obstacle requires the special abilities of a specific class to be completed. So far I've come up with a challenge for every class except the spy and the pyro. I haven't had any luck yet creating a working sentry for the spy to sneak by, and haven't been able to get a working fire yet for the pyro.

    If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

    I've put together a few of the challenges I came up with into a rough map. It requires the use of an engineer, a soldier, a scout, a sniper, and a medic (in that order) to complete. It's a test release and has little to no textures, props, lighting, or optimizing, so don't expect anything spectacular. It should still be playable, though.

    Anyways, here it is, for the curious:
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/buugdb
     
  2. PandaN

    PandaN L1: Registered

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    Prop_dynamic I think with .mdl set as Sentry, walking to the designated area that you want trigger_multiple that triggers a trigger_hurt as one output and another that triggers sentry sounds + animation.

    I.E. :
    Make the trigger_multiple with these outputs; (place it where you want people to get shot at)

    OnStartTouchAll->trigger_hurt->enable
    OnStartTouchAll->sentry->SetAnimation->fire
    OnStartTouchAll->sentryshootsound->PlaySound

    Then make a trigger_hurt

    Then make prop_dynamic call it sentry :p (world model is sentry1.mdl)

    Then make an ambient_generic call it sentryshootsound - the sound you want is "weapons/sentry_shoot.wav"

    I haven't messed with finding out what class a player is, working on it - it's far beyond my limited SDK knowledge, sorry :(
     
  3. PandaN

    PandaN L1: Registered

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    By the way, checked out the map - I liked how it works in principle at the moment.

    Engy -> Demoman -> Soldier -> Sniper -> Medic/Heavy

    Is that what was intended for each of the challenges? I can tell engy was for the start, with the way the holes in the wall are :p

    Myself and a mate enjoyed it :)
     
  4. Apex_

    Apex_ L3: Member

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    I've been mulling over a trial map myself for some time. I always draw up maps and leave them since I usually lack the time and motivation to actually give it a shot, but I'd be more than happy to help someone design a map.

    I have the exact same design problems with pyro and spy. Pyro flame doesn't damage anything really (at least not in the normal sense) and the shogun and axe are more or less totally lacking unique features. Spies are tough for a lot of reasons. I initially wanted to have a spy teleport to the enemy side and have to navigate their paths to a spy-only area to press a button. In other words, they'd have to successfully play spy for a couple of rooms without getting blasted. Alternately you could have a room where enemy engineers can build sentries that shoot through murder holes and the spy must navigate an obstacle course thing without getting shot...but disguises void that entirely. I left that one open for committee.

    @PandaN: That wouldn't work, since it would "shoot" the spy no matter what. Again, if there was a way to find out a player class and filter by it that would've worked fine. Otherwise the mechanism is great for making an auto-turret shoot a specific area, which could be used elsewhere I'm sure.

    As for class challenges for the rest of them, I think most are pretty easy concepts but future maps of this type can build on it. For instance a rocket jump course could have moving platforms or double rocket jumps where you have to hit an angled wall. Sniper ranges could have moving targets, and cutout targets that look like friendlies and enemies, using a counter system to tally hits until you reach a certain amount (and subtracting "team kills"). The demoman has all sorts of possibilities with arcing grenades and pipe jumping. If you can use directed shooter entities you could have a heavy+medic shield teammates across a bridge being pelted with gunfire from a system like PandaN's.

    Regarding core gameplay, I'd like to see a trial map that's non-linear. Basically you could have 4 challenges per floor, arranged outward like spokes of a wheel with the spawn in the center. You could complete any of them in any order, and it would register on a counter. When the counter hits 4, it opens a teleport to the next floor or however you wish to transport the players. This would allow coordinated teams to split up into small groups and complete multiple rooms at once, which would be really cool I think.

    Whew, that's a lot of thinking. I think I'm done for awhile now :) Good luck on any future projects!
     
  5. PandaN

    PandaN L1: Registered

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    Yea my system will only work for the specific spy scenario once we can detect what class someone is, and if they are using what ability :(
     
  6. PandaN

    PandaN L1: Registered

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  7. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    Heh I was just about to recommend what jive said also pandan. Yeah that would definetly work for the pyros job, althought I liked your idea of having a fire that only he could pass through without dying.

    Of course I am not sure, even if fire was possible in TF2, how to make it burn on the player like the pyros flame does.
     
  8. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    Posted today too, lol. Thanks, I'll work on it. I've looked around and from what I've read on the steam forums, it doesn't look like there's any way to create an obstacle for the spy. I know there's something in the game that the sentry guns use to differentiate targets, but I don't think it's accessible through hammer.

    I was thinking of the non-linear approach as well, I need to get the actual challenges working first. The scout challenge took me a while to plan out, originally I was just planning on having a death pit that the players would fall into who missed the platforms :D, but I liked the idea of having a water enviroment. The water is the reason some of the platforms are floating in the air rather then connected to anything, to deter the demo and soldier from wall jumping onto them.

    I like the idea of having moving platforms for the soldiers challenge, I never thought of that. It would take quite a bit more time to get it working right.

    It's taking me awhile to update figure this stuff out, I only started using hammer a few weeks ago, so I still have a lot to learn. I wouldn't mind working with someone else, but my internet connection hasn't been very stable lately (it's part of the reason why I started using hammer, lol). Hopefully I can fix whatevers wrong with it.
     
  9. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    I liked the fire room as well, in fact that was my first idea for the medic challenge, but I couldn't get it working quite right, it damaged me when I walked into it, but the flames were invisible o_0, so I went with lasers instead.

    Supposedly fire does work in TF2, at least according to:
    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641165

    Someone else with had the same idea in mind.
     
  10. Apex_

    Apex_ L3: Member

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    I've been thinking about a challenge map like this for weeks now, so if you need any help or ideas I'd be more than happy to lend a hand. I'm tied up with life and a CTF map project as it is, so I can't really do it myself...but I'll certainly help where I can and collaborate on a project :D

    Feel free to drop me a line via Steam (apex464) or email me at apex001 at gmail.
     
  11. Brandished

    Brandished L5: Dapper Member

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    Hmm.. Not having any luck with the "OnIgnite" output, I hit a prop_physics_multiplayer with the pyros torch till I drained the ammo and nothing.

    Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I set the world model to "models/props_2fort/miningcrate001.mdl", named it "crate_01", set the output to OnIgnite > boom2 > explode (boom2 being an env_explosion), and nothing. I tried changing the output to OnIgnite > crate_01 > Break, and still nothing. The flame goes right through the prop as if it's not even there.

    The developer wiki mentions something about marking the prop with "explode_fire" physcannon interaction, but I'm not really sure what they're talking about:
    http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Prop_Data



    I'll add you to my friends list, I go by Frustration Crustacean on steam.
     
  12. Apex_

    Apex_ L3: Member

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    I forgot I posted that and was kind of puzzled at the friends request for a second :tongue_smilie: I'm usually on in the evenings (EST) until around midnight or so.

    As for Pyro fire, if I recall the flames are specific entities only used for that weapon (TFFireEntity). They don't work the same way "regular" fire does, and aren't tied into any specific map entities that I know of. As far as I know they're used specifically for the flamethrower and aren't accessible otherwise.
     
  13. Deskalada

    Deskalada L1: Registered

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    Well a good way to force them to use every class is creat a "lock" that requerds two or 3 classes to work
     
  14. Apex_

    Apex_ L3: Member

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    That wouldn't work, since any 2 or 3 players could operate the lock. A common misconception about class filtering is "class" in this instance doesn't mean player class. Filtering by class means the entity class, e.g. prop_physics, func_physbox etc. At the moment there's no known way to actually detect or filter a player's class, so having something like a button only a spy could press isn't possible.

    My recommendation would be to consider challenges that require 3 or fewer classes at a time. There aren't a ton of combinations that would work without any filtering ability, but you could definitely have two or three different challenges for certain classes (demoman is a prime example...pipe jumps could be one, and arcing grenades into baskets or something could be a second one).