absurdistof
aa
- Aug 10, 2009
- 1,240
- 399
I haven't seen that :S but it had me in tears.
3/2 New Blog Post: "Damnit damnit damnit damnit!"
- Thread starter PMAvers
- Start date
Hawk
L7: Fancy Member
- Dec 3, 2007
- 419
- 213
I think that's EXACTLY what the Engineer needs. On defense he's going to turtle. That's his job. If a player wanted to go out and hunt the offense, they'd be a different, better-suited class.
But on offense, there needs to be changes that allow him to be more effective at pushing the line forward and maintaining it. As it stands, a good Engineer can do a decent job on placing surprise Lv1 sentries, but I'd like to see them create some kind of offensive sentry... weaker, but faster to make. And if it cost less metal, you'd be more inclined to try out creative spots. And you'd have more metal for teleporters and dispensers, which your team still wants you to make.
Making the game more interesting for a defensive Engineer is a HARD job. I'm not sure how you solve that. But I wouldn't mind seeing a trade-off that makes you better equipped to handle spies.
- Jul 31, 2009
- 1,590
- 410
Really? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14"]YouTube- nope.avi[/ame].
Clearly the P.D.Q. would be pretty much the engineer update in one unlock. I see almost no flaws in it.
Seems they're genuinely treating the engineer with the respect of giving him engineering unlocks. Too bad the demoman didn't get demolition unlocks and instead got a sword and shield......
I still fail to find the words to express how much of a bad move that was.
I still fail to find the words to express how much of a bad move that was.
- Sep 28, 2009
- 3,075
- 2,778
I disagree. The PDQ requires that you demolish your structures to move forward, constantly reducing your metal. In comp. play, you'd want to just move your buildings instead of having to hunt around for an ammo pack or weapon and get back to the battlefield. Additionally, the PDQ will pretty much force another player in pub play into another engineer slot in order to upgrade buildings while you speed build. Instant indestructible turtle spot.
Retroid
L5: Dapper Member
- Aug 25, 2009
- 206
- 22
Between the Scottish Resistance, Sticky Launcher and Grenade Launcher - I don't see what else you could need; all the destruction tools a Demo could want are right there!
The shield at least did one major thing and taught people how to use Grenade Launcher, which a lot of Demomen wouldn't even touch unless spamming. Plus it still kind of kept the trapping mentality, even though it gave you the option of charging at the enemy (in which would most likely get you killed), it was best used whilst hiding around the corner and attacking with an element of surprise.
- Jul 31, 2009
- 1,590
- 410
I'm not a big fan of the PDQ because I don't think it solves anything.
It moves your build time from 5.0s to 3.3s, but you have to stand at the sentry whacking away at it to get that 1.7s advantage. Combined with the other downsides...
The problem with offensive engineering now is (A) scarce/guarded metal at frontlines (B) engineer is usually dead if caught (C) uber-sneaky "BUILDIN' A SENTRY!" declarations.
The PDQ solves none of those.
The engineer needs to be able to trade combat power for speed/escape, and the sneaky-turret should actually be visually distinct, cheaper/faster/quieter to build, and un-upgrade-able by anybody.
It moves your build time from 5.0s to 3.3s, but you have to stand at the sentry whacking away at it to get that 1.7s advantage. Combined with the other downsides...
The problem with offensive engineering now is (A) scarce/guarded metal at frontlines (B) engineer is usually dead if caught (C) uber-sneaky "BUILDIN' A SENTRY!" declarations.
The PDQ solves none of those.
The engineer needs to be able to trade combat power for speed/escape, and the sneaky-turret should actually be visually distinct, cheaper/faster/quieter to build, and un-upgrade-able by anybody.
I think the best thing is to put in a special "pickup metal" button, so that everybody else doesn't TAKE MY 200 METAL FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AND LEAVE THE ENTIRE TEAM COMPLETELY SCREWED
The Engineer should be able to help to capture a point in order to be useful. In other words, he should have something do to when it came to pushing because right now in 5CP he's redundant. If you want to cap, he's uselesss and if you already capped why would you want him?
Let's imagine the second point of Fastlane. How can an Engineer support his team here?
As someone who tried very hard to make the Offensive Engineer work I discovered that Level 1 sentries are useless except against bad players. Once you get decents players you will not get any kills because they will tank the damage and kill it or step back and report the team to kill it instantly. You need a level 2 sentry at least.
Level 2 sentries can kill a Soldier if you support it, but they require skill because alone can be Tanked and kill fall pretty easily. It's good but not as good as a level 3 one.
However that alone is not exactly right. It's like the Jarate, now we need the Huntsman.
I thought that probably something like the Ambassador would be nice. Perhaps a Ray Gun like Quake's, it would reward skilled players.
In the end the Engineer is not that bad fighting. He is very much like a Scout and I'm sure that a little more fire power would balance the class greatly. Just a little bit, like the Ambassador.
Let's imagine the second point of Fastlane. How can an Engineer support his team here?
As someone who tried very hard to make the Offensive Engineer work I discovered that Level 1 sentries are useless except against bad players. Once you get decents players you will not get any kills because they will tank the damage and kill it or step back and report the team to kill it instantly. You need a level 2 sentry at least.
Level 2 sentries can kill a Soldier if you support it, but they require skill because alone can be Tanked and kill fall pretty easily. It's good but not as good as a level 3 one.
However that alone is not exactly right. It's like the Jarate, now we need the Huntsman.
I thought that probably something like the Ambassador would be nice. Perhaps a Ray Gun like Quake's, it would reward skilled players.
In the end the Engineer is not that bad fighting. He is very much like a Scout and I'm sure that a little more fire power would balance the class greatly. Just a little bit, like the Ambassador.
Last edited:
randomteddy
L1: Registered
- Jun 5, 2009
- 32
- 2
I had an idea for the engineer, a dispenser backpack. it replaces the build kit and it give you and your team health and ammo.
FissionMetroid101
L2: Junior Member
- Jan 27, 2010
- 65
- 118
I don't think they have to scrap the repair node completely. I think they could add a part to the dispencer that only allows it to be upgraded only to level 2, but it repairs buildings too (at a slow rate).
I was told Valve had decided they weren't going to give the Engie any building unlocks at all (apparently after they gave up on the Repair Node). I still don't see how they expect that to work, but I've been pleasantly surprised by them before.
I think it should be a percentage of however much the pack grants, like say half. So a Heavy with 112 rounds can grab a 50% or 21% ammo pack, but not the full one. Maybe apply the same thing to medkits, but with a higher percentage, like 2/3. It's very easy to grab packs you don't need, especially when there's one of each sitting next to each other and you're going for the other one.
I think it should be a percentage of however much the pack grants, like say half. So a Heavy with 112 rounds can grab a 50% or 21% ammo pack, but not the full one. Maybe apply the same thing to medkits, but with a higher percentage, like 2/3. It's very easy to grab packs you don't need, especially when there's one of each sitting next to each other and you're going for the other one.
- May 21, 2009
- 2,039
- 1,484
Engineer needs teleporter exit backpacks.
What? No, that couldn't be exploited at all. <__<
Or this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz0cycmW4z0"]YouTube- SAPPER CRUSHER[/ame]
SAPPER CRUSHER
Level 100 BARE FIST
What? No, that couldn't be exploited at all. <__<
Or this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz0cycmW4z0"]YouTube- SAPPER CRUSHER[/ame]
SAPPER CRUSHER
Level 100 BARE FIST
- Jul 31, 2009
- 1,590
- 410
Thought of that, but it should take the Engineer back to spawn, not to a point of his choosing. (This imposes some limits on being able to zorp right back to your sentry in times of crisis.)
Ideally, a ninjaneer should serve as a form of dynamic environmental damage. An obstacle which, in a calm situation, poses no threat but can be game-changing if the player wanders into it. I would also like to see a sentry which draws targets towards it, rather than pushing them away (like a giant electromagnet).