CTF_Milkrun

[Milktoast]

After reading lillbrorsan's ideas at http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=621303 about an attack/defend map where teams push carts filled with dynamite to the enemy base, I thought it might be a good idea to apply this game mechanic to a CTF map.

The idea is to make the intel initially very difficult (but possible) to extract from the enemy base. The task is made easier by destroying strategic obstacles that open up alternate paths to the intel. These obstacles are destroyed by pushing carts from a central explosives depot to the enemy base. In all, there are three obstacles to destroy, each one successively more difficult to accomplish. The fourth and final cart, if pushed to a specific zone, will open up a forward respawn room near the enemy base. It will be possible to play the map without using the carts at all, but teams that use them will gain an advantage.

At any given time, there are two carts in play: one for the red team and one for the blue. The carts are "pushed" when players are near. Your cart moves forward if a member of your team is near it. It moves backward if a member of the enemy team is near it. It stops if either nobody is near or if both teams are near. The speed of the cart is constant (it moves both forward and backward at the same rate regardless of how many players are near or what class they are). Players can run beside the cart or ride on top of it.

Each cart takes a different path to their respective obstacles. If the enemy team is able to push your cart back to the explosives depot, the cart is destroyed and will only respawn after a 30 second delay (to give your team an incentive to keep the cart in play). If your team successfully destroys an obstacle, the next cart will spawn immediately at the depot. The carts are not "armed" until they travel a certain distance from the depot to prevent the enemy from camping the depot and immediately destroying the cart.

The final cart (the one that opens up the forward respawn) must be guarded, since the enemy team could push it out of the zone (disabling the forward respawn) and back to the depot.

I've built a small test map that seems to work ok on a LAN with four players. However, I'm worried that, since I'm using func_tracktrains, my implementation may not work or be very buggy over the net with lots of players.

I'm in the process of building the "full scale" CTF_Milkrun map, but I'm in the early stages. I wanted to throw the idea out there and see what people thought. I also wanted to see if people are willing to play a very simple playtest version just to test the setup (i.e., not textured, lit, or detailed... just enough to test the functionality).

I'm imagining that the overall style of the map will be close to cp_dustbowl or cp_gravelpit, something like this:

An alternate setup might require teams to blow up obstacles to reach each flag, each one being more difficult to reach than the last. At the start of the map, neither team can reach the enemy team's flag and must push their cart to the enemy base to destroy an obstacle so they can grab it. Once the flag is captured, the next cart is spawned at the depot and must be pushed to flag #2's obstacle, etc. However, I'm worried this setup may result in teams turtling with nobody pushing the carts to open up the flags.

 

[lerlerson]

Hoo boy, now THIS sounds like a damn good idea. I actually was helping lill, until he abandoned the damn project, so I'd love to see it's basic premise used, and this sounds interesting. I'd love to test it out, even if it had no textures, or decals, or anything, so count me in!

 

[Milktoast]

lerlerson, I haven't had any feedback yet besides yours. I was hoping to get some more input on the general concept. I put together a very small test map with some detail, so it's not awful to look at. It has two mine carts, one for each team. The goal is to blow up the opposing team's cow. It's very simple, the map is basically a box, but it at least demonstrates the overall idea. Do you know of a group that play tests maps and how to request a play test?

 

[lerlerson]

Nope, unfortunately I don't know a playtest group, but I do think this site has one, doesn't it?

 

[Intraman]

I think its a great idea. I might be able to set a little test server with a little group I play with. Contact me on steam so time. I might be able to do it as soon as tomorrow.
Sorry I forget to reply earlier.

 

[Milktoast]

Ok, thanks, Intraman. I've sent you an invite on Steam.

[Edit] I haven't been able to catch you on Steam. I'm to the point where the playtest map (just to test the carts) is ready to try out. I'll upload the .bsp to FileFront tonight. Let me know when/if you'll be able to try it. Thanks again.

More pics:

 

[Voztron]

Looks pretty good. Throw me an invite (Voztron) I am in Australia though so I dont know if we will be on at the same time.

 

[Logo]

It seems that Valve read the same idea:

"A new game mode will be introduced with the map Goldrush, the second map due out (alongside the Badlands remake). In Goldrush, the blue team must escort a mining cart through tunnels. The cart moves faster with more blue team members nearby, but stops completely if a red player gets near."

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/23/te...new-game-mode/

 

[Milktoast]

Damnation and hellfire! I guess I can stop working on the blasted thing. Valve will do it right... mine will end up on the rubbish pile. Someone wake up lillbrorsan and give him the news!

 

[Logo]

That's the opposite reaction you should have! With valve doing this they'll now have the entities setup for all to see and you know they'll work properly. You could be the first to have a custom map using the same gametype properly and people will appreciate the alternate layout.

Plus now you know that this game type works and will be fun. If it wasn't going to be something that people would find fun Valve probably wouldn't bother to make such a map .

 

[Milktoast]

I'm sure a day or two after Goldrush is released there'll be three or four custom maps using Valve's setup... and it'll be a lot better than what I've come up with.

The carts I've built are more of a tug-of-war in reverse (a "push-of-war" if you will)... the cart stops if both teams are near, but if only one team is close it will move toward the enemy base. The folks in lillbrorsan's es_dynamite thread also had the idea of the cart moving faster if more players are near (or if a specific class is near, say a demoman), but I couldn't figure out how to implement that.

I'm sure Goldrush will be fun and it will be interesting to see how they implement it. Although I can't wait to play it, I'm a little depressed that all the work I've done is basically wasted.

 

[YM]

I'm sure a day or two after Goldrush is released there'll be three or four custom maps using Valve's setup.

If by a few days you are using valve time, then that sounds about right. using our time thats way off.

But seriously, props for thinking cleverly

 

[Milktoast]

Found more info:

The new game mode is showcased in Goldrush - the map that will ship alongside cp_badlands in a little over a month from now. One team must escort a small mining cart through a series of Dustbowl-like map segments. The cart moves faster the more Blue players are near it, but stops entirely if even one Red player is in range. Blue have to escort the cart all the way to Red's headquarters within a certain timelimit.

The new mode, currently unnamed, is awesome fun. It concentrates the action around one point, keeping it intense and frenetic, but that point is constantly moving. That means the tactical landscape is constantly changing, Engineers have to rethink their Sentry positions as the cart grinds forth, and everyone has to adapt constantly as they play. And crouching alongside the cart, using it as a piece of mobile cover from enemy snipers as it crawls along agonisingly slowly, is hilarious.​

Sounds like the cart moves very slowly (too slowly to make it to the destination in time) if there is just one or two players nearby... that you need a half dozen or so to get it up to speed. It probably doesn't move backwards, so it's red's job to keep blu away from the cart as much as possible. Probably a lot of places along the way to setup sentry guns and ambushes with a final, frantic push at the end near red's respawn.

My CTF setup is different in that the carts move much faster and can be pushed in either direction. The carts I'm using can also be used for cover, but the cart itself is really too small to provide much protection. I wonder if the cart in Goldrush is larger.

 

[phatal]

If by a few days you are using valve time, then that sounds about right. using our time thats way off.

I was gonna say the same thing.

Valve time is veerrryyy long. I'm waiting for the Christmas map pack and updates still.

I'd say run with it. I wouldn't expect Valve to give us gold rush for at least another month or 2 at least.

 

[Logo]

Found more info:

The new game mode is showcased in Goldrush - the map that will ship alongside cp_badlands in a little over a month from now. One team must escort a small mining cart through a series of Dustbowl-like map segments. The cart moves faster the more Blue players are near it, but stops entirely if even one Red player is in range. Blue have to escort the cart all the way to Red's headquarters within a certain timelimit.

The new mode, currently unnamed, is awesome fun. It concentrates the action around one point, keeping it intense and frenetic, but that point is constantly moving. That means the tactical landscape is constantly changing, Engineers have to rethink their Sentry positions as the cart grinds forth, and everyone has to adapt constantly as they play. And crouching alongside the cart, using it as a piece of mobile cover from enemy snipers as it crawls along agonisingly slowly, is hilarious.​

Sounds like the cart moves very slowly (too slowly to make it to the destination in time) if there is just one or two players nearby... that you need a half dozen or so to get it up to speed. It probably doesn't move backwards, so it's red's job to keep blu away from the cart as much as possible. Probably a lot of places along the way to setup sentry guns and ambushes with a final, frantic push at the end near red's respawn.

My CTF setup is different in that the carts move much faster and can be pushed in either direction. The carts I'm using can also be used for cover, but the cart itself is really too small to provide much protection. I wonder if the cart in Goldrush is larger.

Then keep making your map.

 

[Apex_]

Then keep making your map.

I concur. From what I've read about Goldrush and what was posted regarding this idea, they're similar but different. Goldrush sounds almost like a mobile capture point, whereas Milktoast's map would use a cart to accomplish a secondary objective (with the primary being a flag). I actually like the latter more, personally. I've always been a proponent of finding new ways to play CTF using different objectives.

So yeah, keep going. I'll volunteer my server if you ever need a playtest group. The server regulars at apex-games.net are always willing to try new maps and ideas.

 

[TheBladeRoden]

I keep getting Railgun vibes from this discussion

 

[Milktoast]

ET Railgun was mentioned in lillbrorsan's es_dynamite thread. I found a description here:

http://wolfenstein.gamegate2k.com/et/enemyterritory/railgun

This has an interesting twist. You have to accomplish sequential goals in order to win. For example, you have to escort the first train to a specific point before you can move the second train to the railgun. You also have to guard the railgun's fire controls... which are repairable by an engineer.

Was it a fun map?