Spillway
- Thread starter FreeLance_FoX
- Start date
Stink Horse
L2: Junior Member
- Aug 1, 2009
- 73
- 23
Wow, I'm getting the impression this map has history around here.
FeartheMango
L69: Deviant Member
- Sep 8, 2009
- 69
- 25
Dammit Fox, I've been waiting for this to go in beta forever.
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Awr, Icarus. 
NO NO not anywhere near completely, but I'm just rebuilding the geometry because I want to leave it ready for detailing, specifically to create the sense of scale that I invision (a la Hydro) and change the theme of some spaces.
For instance, the indoor connector from yard to mid will now be sewer themed, like the room in Hydro with the sewer openings for doors (I hope you know which one I mean). Additionally, the third, upper path to middle from yard will be removed, and instead that area of mid will be accessed from a staircase in the new room I just mentioned. Then, on to last, the openings will be consolidated from the four doors before to the two doors pictured above and one huge door where the spillway goes on the right. Other than that, just some minor layout changes and an attempt to make second interesting. I have it all on paper right now!!! :3
-FoX
NO NO not anywhere near completely, but I'm just rebuilding the geometry because I want to leave it ready for detailing, specifically to create the sense of scale that I invision (a la Hydro) and change the theme of some spaces.
For instance, the indoor connector from yard to mid will now be sewer themed, like the room in Hydro with the sewer openings for doors (I hope you know which one I mean). Additionally, the third, upper path to middle from yard will be removed, and instead that area of mid will be accessed from a staircase in the new room I just mentioned. Then, on to last, the openings will be consolidated from the four doors before to the two doors pictured above and one huge door where the spillway goes on the right. Other than that, just some minor layout changes and an attempt to make second interesting. I have it all on paper right now!!! :3
-FoX
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
COMING TOMORROW
a16
a16
Jack Riguel
L10: Glamorous Member
- Jul 19, 2009
- 721
- 254
Aw sweet. Looking forward to testing this again.
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
I already fixed that, obviously. That was temporary while I built things to know what was and wasn't a cliff.
Sheesh
Sheesh
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Thanks nerd.
For anyone who wants to check a16 out on their own, I put the drop box link up in the first post. But I'm keeping a16 quiet for now while I work some things out and test it via tf2m impromptu tests. :3
I EXPECT TO SEE A LOT OF FEEDBACK NOW
</love>
For anyone who wants to check a16 out on their own, I put the drop box link up in the first post. But I'm keeping a16 quiet for now while I work some things out and test it via tf2m impromptu tests. :3
I EXPECT TO SEE A LOT OF FEEDBACK NOW
</love>
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Ninjilla
L420: High Member
- Sep 13, 2008
- 445
- 116
Around where I am aiming (a little up, obviously), put an arrow facing to the right. People out of spawn will see it right when they exit.
Put another arrow going to the right so people know not to go downstairs, and if they go up, not to drop left.
THis one prolly wont be agreed by everyone, but a small metal under the bridge would benefit spies very well. I mostly got around the middle point by scavenging fallen weapons, and often couldnt get to the other side with the regular watch in one cloak as I had to start it from afar. Just something to try? Maybe move the ammos from the point down?
EDIT: Didnt know the photos filder on drop box was private, damned. FINALLY FIXED MY PICS
Put another arrow going to the right so people know not to go downstairs, and if they go up, not to drop left.
THis one prolly wont be agreed by everyone, but a small metal under the bridge would benefit spies very well. I mostly got around the middle point by scavenging fallen weapons, and often couldnt get to the other side with the regular watch in one cloak as I had to start it from afar. Just something to try? Maybe move the ammos from the point down?
EDIT: Didnt know the photos filder on drop box was private, damned. FINALLY FIXED MY PICS
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- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Since this is such a big release you might want to update the screens.
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
I will, I guess I can do it now. :S
EDIT: Done. I put the dropbox link as the download, but bear in mind I will be putting a17 out in the coming days. :3
EDIT: Done. I put the dropbox link as the download, but bear in mind I will be putting a17 out in the coming days. :3
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Fireman
L4: Comfortable Member
- Mar 21, 2008
- 150
- 59
More signs, at least one immediately visible upon exiting spawn. Every new respawn room had me wheeling around trying to find which way to turn.
The middle point felt a bit far away from last, running back to it as an attacker was a bit of a chore.
I want to say that the quick caps on second were due more to the times than the proximity. It was usually just a scout or two that got ahead and snatched it while the team was still respawning from the mid fight.
The middle point felt a bit far away from last, running back to it as an attacker was a bit of a chore.
I want to say that the quick caps on second were due more to the times than the proximity. It was usually just a scout or two that got ahead and snatched it while the team was still respawning from the mid fight.
Stink Horse
L2: Junior Member
- Aug 1, 2009
- 73
- 23
Hi Fox.
Major Concerns
The map feels very long. As a heavy my primary concern, aside from keeping my opponent in the circle until they fall over is the length of time it takes to get from point A to point B. Your map stretches these distances out in many cases. The rooms where the points are very big, both vertically and horizontally. On top of that the transition paths between the points are also very long. Between the final point and the second point you have multiple hallways as well as the attack space of the final point itself. Think of Granary. The distance between the 2nd and final point coming into view is maybe 1000 units, give or take. Give some serious thought to how you can adjust the distances between the major locations, if not the major locations themselves. Sometimes less is more.
Center
The center point has a good bit of height variety to it, but I would suggest halving the difference between the height of the point and the height of the waterway around it, or failing that raise up a bit of the ground to the sides where you currently have the ramps leading up to the point and then ramp down to the rest of the ground from there. I would also suggest widening the placement of the entry points and providing more cover for them and less for the point itself. This might improve the contest for it as anyone attempting to it will be more exposed, while both attackers and defenders will have more support from the geometry upon entering the area.
Second
The route to the second point could be the right size but the scale and separation of the paths feels too great. Consider tightening them up. The point itself is very claustrophobic and the attacking team doesn't have a lot of options. The circular frame above the point is as good an example as any to start on this next issue, the feel of the map is schizophrenic. On one hand you have natural rock and on the other you were talking about throwing spy tech computers into it. Pick one and define the location with it rather than trying to mix them.
Final
The final point is problematic. the area around it is simultaneously too large and too cramped. The paths the player moves down are very long with little cover. The big wall just in front of the point runs right up to it allowing attackers in without defenders seeing them until the last second. The route to the left is also, similarly right on top of the point. Those upper bridges don't do the defenders any favors either seeing as the access point for them is pointed straight at the attackers. Once again think of Granary, it's final point is wide open, and while the attackers have no less then four ways into the room, the defending team has it's back against a wall along with powerful sight lines.
Similarly to point two your choice of architecture for the final point feels like it's all over the place. You mentioned that the spillway, when not in use, is used as storage. I'm not even going to start on how ridiculous that is. Instead I'm going to suggest that you rebuild it to suit it's purpose better. Rounded half pipes leading away from where the water lands. Suspend the point over a pit or a deeper pool of water. Make all the walkways for the defending team elevated by 128 or so above the main path and make all the non elevated path ways piping or something similar. Maybe the route from the final point to the second point is a series of three parallel pipes cutting through a rock wall, angled down from the spill way to ground level on the next point. Maybe those pipes are no more then 500 or so units long. Maybe they exit out right on top of the 2nd point, fulfilling my earlier suggestion of reducing the distance between locations.
Major Concerns
The map feels very long. As a heavy my primary concern, aside from keeping my opponent in the circle until they fall over is the length of time it takes to get from point A to point B. Your map stretches these distances out in many cases. The rooms where the points are very big, both vertically and horizontally. On top of that the transition paths between the points are also very long. Between the final point and the second point you have multiple hallways as well as the attack space of the final point itself. Think of Granary. The distance between the 2nd and final point coming into view is maybe 1000 units, give or take. Give some serious thought to how you can adjust the distances between the major locations, if not the major locations themselves. Sometimes less is more.
Center
The center point has a good bit of height variety to it, but I would suggest halving the difference between the height of the point and the height of the waterway around it, or failing that raise up a bit of the ground to the sides where you currently have the ramps leading up to the point and then ramp down to the rest of the ground from there. I would also suggest widening the placement of the entry points and providing more cover for them and less for the point itself. This might improve the contest for it as anyone attempting to it will be more exposed, while both attackers and defenders will have more support from the geometry upon entering the area.
Second
The route to the second point could be the right size but the scale and separation of the paths feels too great. Consider tightening them up. The point itself is very claustrophobic and the attacking team doesn't have a lot of options. The circular frame above the point is as good an example as any to start on this next issue, the feel of the map is schizophrenic. On one hand you have natural rock and on the other you were talking about throwing spy tech computers into it. Pick one and define the location with it rather than trying to mix them.
Final
The final point is problematic. the area around it is simultaneously too large and too cramped. The paths the player moves down are very long with little cover. The big wall just in front of the point runs right up to it allowing attackers in without defenders seeing them until the last second. The route to the left is also, similarly right on top of the point. Those upper bridges don't do the defenders any favors either seeing as the access point for them is pointed straight at the attackers. Once again think of Granary, it's final point is wide open, and while the attackers have no less then four ways into the room, the defending team has it's back against a wall along with powerful sight lines.
Similarly to point two your choice of architecture for the final point feels like it's all over the place. You mentioned that the spillway, when not in use, is used as storage. I'm not even going to start on how ridiculous that is. Instead I'm going to suggest that you rebuild it to suit it's purpose better. Rounded half pipes leading away from where the water lands. Suspend the point over a pit or a deeper pool of water. Make all the walkways for the defending team elevated by 128 or so above the main path and make all the non elevated path ways piping or something similar. Maybe the route from the final point to the second point is a series of three parallel pipes cutting through a rock wall, angled down from the spill way to ground level on the next point. Maybe those pipes are no more then 500 or so units long. Maybe they exit out right on top of the 2nd point, fulfilling my earlier suggestion of reducing the distance between locations.
These slopes are annoying since you can't walk onto them.
I think an exit or something here would be nice. Not sure though.
This is annoying to jump onto, especially while you're burning/bleeding/getting shot at by a Havvy. Ramp, maybe?
Also: the 2/4th points felt like they were rolled every time; maybe remove the ring from the top, or at least the attackers' side?
I think an exit or something here would be nice. Not sure though.
This is annoying to jump onto, especially while you're burning/bleeding/getting shot at by a Havvy. Ramp, maybe?
Also: the 2/4th points felt like they were rolled every time; maybe remove the ring from the top, or at least the attackers' side?
- Sep 6, 2008
- 353
- 173
Thanks Seba. You can walk onto the slopes from the other direction, which is what I intended, but I'm going to playerclip to allow you to walk up from that direction as well. Exit... into last? And I'm not sure about those little rocks yet, I may end up changing the cover at mid quite a bit in the next version :S
Stink horse I'm still digesting your comments... very thought provoking
Stink horse I'm still digesting your comments... very thought provoking
Liked the map. Though, like I said in the playtest, I think it needs more health-pickups (or maybe place them differently...)
Other than that: the area near the spawn (and last/first point) feels really big, you can get lost there pretty easily. Maybe scale that down?
Also, the upper catwalk (? is that the word for it?), wasn't used very often (only for nasty sentries =/), maybe you can do something about that...
The map as a whole didn't feel too big, I thought the size was pretty good.
Other than that: the area near the spawn (and last/first point) feels really big, you can get lost there pretty easily. Maybe scale that down?
Also, the upper catwalk (? is that the word for it?
), wasn't used very often (only for nasty sentries =/), maybe you can do something about that...The map as a whole didn't feel too big, I thought the size was pretty good.