CTF Panamint Springs a18

[Hanz]

*Gameday Bump*

There was a lot of feedback, but I won't remember/heard all the feedback, so please post your feedback so I won't forget to change important things!

The things I heard and saw:

- The area arround the 2nd cap have to be opened up and/or more good defending/sentry spots?
- Intel always have to return to base (or not?)

Other things? Please post them!

 

[Rutiz]

nice!

 

[Hanz]

Since the progress of stage 2 is going very slow (because of exams) I'll post a screen with the first part from s2 on:

I will probably have a bit more time the next days to work on it, and in a week all exams are over, so I hope it will progress quickly then.

 

[zpqrei]

Since the progress of stage 2 is going very slow (because of exams) I'll post a screen with the first part from s2 on:

I will probably have a bit more time the next days to work on it, and in a week all exams are over, so I hope it will progress quickly then.

YAY! A screen!

 

[Psy]

That slanted roof comes down at a strange 45 angle.

Other then that, I likes the look of it.

 

[captainAngry]

Didn't get a chance to play myself but I did record a demo last night.

 

[Hanz]

Didn't get a chance to play myself but I did record a demo last night.

Oh thanks a lot! I will watch the demo tomorrow!

 

[Hanz]

I updated the map to a4:

ctf_pananamint_a4_s1
No big update, since I was working on stage 2 a lot. But:
- Made the nobuild zones arround the cp's bigger
- New way into the big 'cave' between cp 1 and 2

And next version will include stage 2.

 

[flubber]

You were with us during the test so you mostly see how the match go.

- Beginning of the map is a call for spawnkill, since the three main exit of blue are to close from each other and right in front of an area that is pro defenses, with the height advantage. Putting door may be a solution
- The refill is too far into blue spawnto be usefull and it can be target thru outside
- First point need more access or at least an easiest acces than the crates
- Second point is more interesting and need less work
- Since defenses push back blue to their spawn 2 times in a row after scramble show that once the red took back the height position it's back to first state with a major problem, intel is now harder than ever to get since it's on point 1.
- need much more cover shortcut from cap1 to cap2.
- you need to protect spawn exit to be all vulnerable from the same sniper point, i'm sure detailling will help cut those line but for now with 1-2 good sniper it will be pretty hard.
- Got a lot of people who got the feeling that the map is too large, too many exit leading to too many possible way, that are cutting team, TF2 is a game of large battle, it's much more interesting with large numbers of people fighting together than isolated 1v1 or 2v2.
- Distance thru point is good, compare to other ctf, where scout jump three time and even with a good defense manage to score.
- As always or colorblinds admin just told me there's too many red .
- Most reaction is that second point is much more interesting because there is large fight for it.

I'll work on the heatmaps.

 

[Hanz]

You were with us during the test so you mostly see how the match go.

- Beginning of the map is a call for spawnkill, since the three main exit of blue are to close from each other and right in front of an area that is pro defenses, with the height advantage. Putting door may be a solution
- The refill is too far into blue spawnto be usefull and it can be target thru outside
- First point need more access or at least an easiest acces than the crates
- Second point is more interesting and need less work
- Since defenses push back blue to their spawn 2 times in a row after scramble show that once the red took back the height position it's back to first state with a major problem, intel is now harder than ever to get since it's on point 1.
- need much more cover shortcut from cap1 to cap2.
- you need to protect spawn exit to be all vulnerable from the same sniper point, i'm sure detailling will help cut those line but for now with 1-2 good sniper it will be pretty hard.
- Got a lot of people who got the feeling that the map is too large, too many exit leading to too many possible way, that are cutting team, TF2 is a game of large battle, it's much more interesting with large numbers of people fighting together than isolated 1v1 or 2v2.
- Distance thru point is good, compare to other ctf, where scout jump three time and even with a good defense manage to score.
- As always or colorblinds admin just told me there's too many red .
- Most reaction is that second point is much more interesting because there is large fight for it.

I'll work on the heatmaps.

Thanks a lot! I will try to make cp 1 more easier for blu now and try to make it harder for red to get back to cp 1 when it's already capped.

 

[Hanz]

Gameday Bump.

The main things were:
- Blu spawn is too long
- Let the intel spawn outside
- Blu is getted pushed back too easily when they already capped cp 1. (Maybe add 1/some 1 way door(s) ?, ...) If you have an idea to make it easier for blu, please post it!

And if there are others things, also, feel free to post them!

 

[eerieone]

you should try to avoid one-way doors, they feel restricting, more preferable to that are ledges where the attackers have to jump off and cant get back up, but they are accessable for red´s demos/sollis/scouts

i told you in chat, at the current setup red and blu have the same amount of ways to get to to the other cp, make one way for red less attractive, e.g. longer traveling time/more of a detour then main way, this way you deter slower classes from using these ways and they focus on the main corridor

cp1 played well after you got rid of the boxes
plz get also rid of the boxes at cp2, left side, it was so unlucky to see people desperately trying to get up those

as spy, i loved it, there are many opportunities to jump-stab the attackers once they leave spawn, which also might be why red is able to press blu back.
red just needs to press back to the cp1 area, and soldiers/demos get into top-level positions and rain down hell to blu

 

[Icarus]

No idea what could be causing it, but the Return timer clock on the intel isn't working properly. Sometimes it doesn't budge at all. Sometimes it still thinks it's 60 seconds.

 

[Hanz]

*Contest Gameday Bump*

I quickly updated the map yesterday for the contest gameday. :

ctf_panamint_a5_s1
- Intel now spawns outside the spawn.
- Tried to add some cover for blu in the beginning
- Removed a way up for red so they can't rush back to cp 1, when blu already capped it.
- Changed the spawntimes for blu and red. Blu now spawns between 2-4 seconds, red between 7-14 seconds.
_______

Now, since I wasn't there on the contest gameday, I need some feedback on how the map now played out. Was blu able to capture first point easelier than before? Was red not able to rush forward to cp 1 or blu spawn when cp 1 was already captured? Tell me!

 

[andysss456]

It seemed the only complaint i have is that the first point for blue seems to be hard tdo find somewhat, it's a bit high up and doesn't stand out. Otherwise the map is pretty awesome.

 

[Radaka]

This map keeps getting better every time I play it, just keep going!

I can't wait to see some more stages in here, cause the first stage is fun to play and is balanced.

 

[captainAngry]

Didn't get a chance to play myself but I did record a demo last night.

 

[Hanz]

Update!

ctf_panamint_a6
- Added stage2
- Some small changes at stage1 on cp2 to make it blu a little bit easier to capture the point.

Edit: And Thanks CaptainAngry for running a playtest again!

 

[Void]

Quite possibly the best use of the Badlands rock...

... maybe

 

[grazr]

Yea, you atleast need some more signage to the first CP, or make it more directly visible. I actually ran the intel to the second point before we had the first on one occasion.

Any further points are iffy as the map was OK. But had some minor issues that were discouraging. (in light of my 150 ping).

The second round was somewhat more balanced then the first. But i did notice players get stuck combating each other just beyond the Blu spawn area in this stage. But, once a team was able to get past this bulwark, a cap was pretty inevitable.

Height difference on the left of area 1 stage 2 could be lowered a little so that you have 3 'layers' to the first area of the second stage. Rather than the valley with extremely tall walls on both sides you have now. Your map will have more character this way as well, as it opens up line of site. One of the troubles is that often you can't see that far unless you were ontop of a roof and this is disorientating.

Pathways along the left were narrow in the second stage also, attackers who tended to get pushed assaulting up the left hand side of your map could't stop to shoot for very long as incoming spam tended to deal more damage than should be allowed because of this. Open up your rooms and widen your cliff side paths.

In general your buildings were rather tall. Better to reduce them somewhat early on before you have your heart set on things how they are now. It wasn't a huge issue but it was a fair climb to the first CP in Stage 1. Soldiers were a bit of a favourite.

The spawns were quite large. Especially the transition spawn between Stage 1 and 2, spawn players closer to the gates and move up the locker.

Try not to utilise planks so much, they were aweful to transverse. You got shot by snipers, pushed off by FaN's and airblasts and generally shot to pieces by everyother class.

You had a lot of rooms leading into rooms as well, rooms and corridors. Try to make your buildings more refined and not something that players have to walk through for the sakes of getting from one place to another inside rather than out. It's not simply a matter of providing more path options, especially when it tends to break flow.

Also, spy's owned this map.

I'll include some "paint overs" later so hopefully you can see what would improve gameflow and balance classes more. And make some sense of my generic waffling.