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- Thread starter Panckakebro
- Start date
MM1011
L1: Registered
- Apr 15, 2023
- 33
- 14
I wanted to give better feedback, since I generally do not like the current iteration of this stage and I feel like that deserves detail instead of general hand waving. I think overall the map is too small and needs more room to breathe. For example, here's an overview of the first point:
Here, there's some interesting terrain to fight over directly in front of BLU spawn, while the cart snakes around the back. The issue is that the cart route is less interesting and less defendable, but the terrain in front of BLU spawn is directly in front of BLU spawn, so that won't be held either. The point feels very null and void up until the red gate, and generally what happens is that a bunch of RED people out in the foreground die such that RED lacks the manpower to actual turtle up back there successfully. Even if they didn't, and did make a hold there, it wouldn't be particularly interesting.
I want to say this point actually reminds me of Badwater first. The cart is going in a sort of orthogonal manner to the majority of the terrain, with the idea that winning that terrain is very helpful to completing a capture, but the team still needs dedicated cart pushers. I don't think this point comes together in the same way, and the main reason imo, as I mention above, is the area is too small. There's simply not enough time to have successive fights over the cart or the terrain. Another thing is that Badwater 1 has three paths to this point's two, and it makes this area just feel a little too simplistic to me.
Let's talk about the final cap next:
The main fighting area here is the raised area and the ramp itself. BLU can't really take those areas, and RED will generally be firing down from them onto the lower track area, but there's not really much that can stop BLU from getting to the ramp right in front of RED spawn. BLU has a very strong shortcut at the bottom of the image that sort of guarantees this. The end result of this is that the cart always gets to the ramp, and once BLU gets stuck there, they furthermore have a very safe location to Uber from and push. The area BLU is pushing is small, so single Ubers will be effective and likely push RED back into spawn. I think if you play this 10 or 20 times, eventually this result will become very consistent.
Again, I think my main problem here is the area is too small. It's not fun to clear the cart with an uber, and the next best thing to do to be to sit in front of RED spawn. There's not really a forward point for BLU and RED to contest over. The most forward point would be the previous cap, which RED cannot realistically contest. The flank on the cliffside feels like it should be for BLU, but RED generally takes better advantage of it. It's hard for BLU to hold, and is not a great place to push from either, further emphasizing the "just uber in from the shortcut and try to spawn camp" strategy. I think just having more space, more of a middle-ground RED and BLU could compete over, more area to the final cart push so fighting over it doesn't feel binary, more area to the flank so it too can be fought over, all that would help would just help the point breathe.
Here, there's some interesting terrain to fight over directly in front of BLU spawn, while the cart snakes around the back. The issue is that the cart route is less interesting and less defendable, but the terrain in front of BLU spawn is directly in front of BLU spawn, so that won't be held either. The point feels very null and void up until the red gate, and generally what happens is that a bunch of RED people out in the foreground die such that RED lacks the manpower to actual turtle up back there successfully. Even if they didn't, and did make a hold there, it wouldn't be particularly interesting.
I want to say this point actually reminds me of Badwater first. The cart is going in a sort of orthogonal manner to the majority of the terrain, with the idea that winning that terrain is very helpful to completing a capture, but the team still needs dedicated cart pushers. I don't think this point comes together in the same way, and the main reason imo, as I mention above, is the area is too small. There's simply not enough time to have successive fights over the cart or the terrain. Another thing is that Badwater 1 has three paths to this point's two, and it makes this area just feel a little too simplistic to me.
Let's talk about the final cap next:
The main fighting area here is the raised area and the ramp itself. BLU can't really take those areas, and RED will generally be firing down from them onto the lower track area, but there's not really much that can stop BLU from getting to the ramp right in front of RED spawn. BLU has a very strong shortcut at the bottom of the image that sort of guarantees this. The end result of this is that the cart always gets to the ramp, and once BLU gets stuck there, they furthermore have a very safe location to Uber from and push. The area BLU is pushing is small, so single Ubers will be effective and likely push RED back into spawn. I think if you play this 10 or 20 times, eventually this result will become very consistent.
Again, I think my main problem here is the area is too small. It's not fun to clear the cart with an uber, and the next best thing to do to be to sit in front of RED spawn. There's not really a forward point for BLU and RED to contest over. The most forward point would be the previous cap, which RED cannot realistically contest. The flank on the cliffside feels like it should be for BLU, but RED generally takes better advantage of it. It's hard for BLU to hold, and is not a great place to push from either, further emphasizing the "just uber in from the shortcut and try to spawn camp" strategy. I think just having more space, more of a middle-ground RED and BLU could compete over, more area to the final cart push so fighting over it doesn't feel binary, more area to the flank so it too can be fought over, all that would help would just help the point breathe.
Panckakebro updated Patagonia Stage 3 with a new update entry:
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Panckakebro updated Patagonia Stage 3 with a new update entry:
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Panckakebro updated Patagonia Stage 3 with a new update entry:
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