CP Grove A1

[Alex.bsp]

cp_grove_a1 - A attack/defend map

My first A/D map!

 

[Alex.bsp]

Notes I took after testing grove. I don't believe I'll continue this map, however, I've learn so much on what not to do in a A/D map. I definitely plan on making a A/D map at some point.

Anyways, this is what NOT to do in A/D.

Alpha 1​

• General feedback
  • Don’t give red defensive holds for free.
  • Red should never get an area for free to help them defend.
  • Increase round timer after setup to maybe around 4:30 for first point.
  • Replace player clip on stairs with block bullets.
  • All of BLU's first point entrances are easily covered by snipers, especially the large window
    • the sniper in the large window
  • It's best to make red have to venture out in the open a bit before they get their good hold areas
    • Otherwise, red can sometimes keep a hold even after the CP is capped, which ruins the map flow / pacing
  • All of blue's entrances into A are really separated. Difficult to rotate between them to react to red's plays.
  • Add pickup patches.

• Blue Spawn area
  • Can shoot through door handles.
  • Resupply locker trigger too small.
  • Bad sightline.
  • Door gets stuck sometimes.

• Transition building to first control point (Point A)
  • Ammo pack here would be nice.
  • Prefer a brush ramp instead of a prop.
  • Tiny doorways to the first point. Really easy to spam into them and very open to snipers if pushed through.
  • If I'm here as blue and I decide I want to use a different route into A, its a pretty long walk.

• First control point (Point A)
  • Clip cover.
  • First point might need to be broken up into little areas.
    • Avoid using only walls to literally split it apart but use pieces of cover and height differences.
  • Clip this point.
  • It's good to keep point A brisk cause if red is stacked, nobody wants to sit through that.

• Transition building to final control point (Point B)
  • Really good wrangle spot.
  • Get rid of this balcony.
  • Inconsistent big and open areas.
  • It’s really wide.

• Final control point/Red Spawn area (Point B)
  • Bad sightline.
  • Red spawn shouldn't have good sniper sightlines coming in or out of it.
    • Otherwise snipers can snipe uncontested by spies, and can manifest cover in front of themselves at will.
  • Red just sits behind the window and blue can’t do anything about it.
  • If red even gets slightly threatened then they just back up into spawn and get refilled immediately

• Personal Notes
  • Blue’s courtyard in front of their spawn seems a bit over scaled while also being really small at the same time.
  • Point A is unplayable for spy since they have to force themselves into 3 door ways where blue is always going to be at.
  • Transitioning into the buildings for A also seems cramped and doesn't leave room for many options.
    • You either take a long walk to the left, a long walk to the right, or a long walk to the bottom and don't leave much room for each class to do what they’re good at.
  • Doorways leading out to the door leave no space or cover and just force people into the open.
    • Their only option is to fully commit and the only class that can kinda do that is medic with uber.
  • It seems that you NEED uber in order to push to the point.
    • Without a medic, there’s no point in even trying since they’re nothing to help BLU get to the point.
  • The big windows where they are, overall makes it awkward because Red can see Blu and what they’re up too. Same goes for Blu looking at Red. It seems to mainly favor Red since they can see if Blu is falling back a bit and so it could encourage a push from Red to Blu.
    • Pushing Blu back with the little time they have is just not fair.
  • Also given the feedback I got and viewing the demo, Red does nothing to deserve sightlines and high ground. They are able to walk out and have cover for themselves.
    • Red already has the advantage of defending and all I’m doing is making it easier for them and favoring them without giving that cover to Blu.
      • On top of all that, I have the audacity to give them more higher ground by giving them a balcony.
  • If I have to add 2fort doors in Blu spawn in order to make them safe, then the spawn either isn’t safe, or it's unnecessary since blue already has the advantage of spawning with resupply lockers.
    • Blu also seems to want to walk back in there. If it was well detailed in there and some on Blu wanted to explore that room, then they’ll need to change class inorder to get back in there.
  • It also seems like it takes 20-40 seconds for Blu to completely clear out their courtyard.
    • By the time they have sight of the control point, there is only 2 minutes and 30 seconds for Blu to attack.
      • Any kind of fuck up sends them back a lot, especially for a medic trying to build Uber.
  • The bottom area at A is pointless since no one wants to give up highground that doesn’t benefit them in anyways.
    • Blu spies loved it though since there was no one around that area for them to bump into.
      • Also, it plays like a death pit. It doesn’t matter if Red fell down there or if Blu fell down there, you would be shot from all sides and will most likely die immediately.
  • Blu was only able to capture the first point (A) because a spy missed a backstab on both the medic and heavy while they were on the point.
    • This mishaps allowed for the other part of my map to be played so I was lucky able to get more feedback, yet If that spy would have connected just one backstab, it would have been impossible for Blu to be able to get that far again.
  • On to the final point (B), the transition buildings leading up to it are large in size and are very wide.
  • The vent flank was abused tremendously. Blu loved the vent so much that a Blu engie decided to set up inside of it.
  • After the door at the first point opened (A), not a lot of Blu wanted to use that door way.
    • I believe it’s because Blu thought that the only viable option to attack Red was to hang on the right side, especially the room with the vent.
  • Mid was too open for Blu to attack.
  • The left side was also rarely used.
    • This could be because it was far or maybe not enough cover?
      • After finishing the demo, I still don’t have a set in stone idea on why it wasn’t used. Not enough playing testing in that area to know the cause at least from what I’m able to gather.
        • I still believe it should be changed.
  • Distance from Red to the final point (B) was also very short.
  • Overall, last is just too open and wide and the second any class walks in you can see the whole room. Yes, there’s cover, but that doesn’t stop snipers and demoman from shooting pipes over the cover.
  • Final looks cool, doesn’t play well at all and needs a redesign.
  • A lot of things are going to be reworked and I wouldn’t be surprised if it looked different in alpha.
    • I know that adding little tweaks and small layout changes on this version of the map isn’t going to change how bad it plays.
      • At least it was play tested and I’m able to see what I’m able to change.
        
        

Posting my notes here cause I'm cleaning out my google doc.