Haarp

CTF Haarp rc

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BrokenTripod

L5: Dapper Member
May 11, 2009
248
65
Yeah, perhaps have some of those rocks that jut out of the cliff and cover the top with snow.

I honestly don't mind that it looks like clay, but seems like everyone else does.
 

Dr. Spud

Grossly Incandescent
aa
Mar 23, 2009
880
855
Here's the same picture with some of the atmospheric effects I'm adding. I think it looks fine:

ctf_haarp_b10004.jpg


And here's another, why not:

ctf_haarp_b10005.jpg


Hopefully I'll get this beta ready soon...
 

Terr

Cranky Coder
aa
Jul 31, 2009
1,590
410
Now the water just needs to be a func_fish_pool with killer whales... :D
 

pl

L5: Dapper Member
Mar 6, 2009
248
55
The new 3D skybox and snowy effects = absolute goodness :D

Keep it up - can't wait for the beta!!
 

The_Ulf

L6: Sharp Member
May 26, 2009
399
115
With the environment, the cliffs look fine - actually, I thought they were fine before, too. Snow-covered rocks jutting out here and there couldn't hurt, either.

Looking good!

Oh yeah - what's the secret technique we were supposed to be guessing there? :D
 

Uriak

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Apr 27, 2008
543
70
I'm a bit late, but here's our feeling from this week map test : the angry mob was safely distracted with a tf2 prop hunt server, so haarp didn't get the usual bitching ;)

This was our second big push ctf in a row after premuda, I'll use it as comparison point.
The layout, though less ambitious is far more intuitive on ctf_haarp. We almost did not get any player lost in the course of the test, and people are growing used to the game mode.

Graphically, your outdoors area are really nice, not really cosy, but we get the feeling of a mountainous and isolated base. The indoors are more traditionnal spytech but nicely done, with a fair bit of work on the 2-2 part, with its perfectly fitting retro futuristic setting.

The gameplay was found quite enjoyable, even after a miss on the first try, one lost scout took the intel to the second capture point even before the first was taken, hilarity ensues. This said, the map seemed quite red friendly. No team could cap the 4rt capture point at all, and the second was a tough job, even with the help of the overtime. Both teams featured strong players, and it became a arsh battle between heavies and demomen from both sides.

I have the feeling that your outdoors areas have a smoother gameplay than the indoors one, a bit too cramped, hallway prone. Pyros, scouts, sniper had nearly no use because of the huge firepower of the heavier classes. My main concern would be your fourth CP. This long hallway leading to the round data center thing definitively feels like hell for the blue team. The sideways either means some hazardous travel over tiny catwalks or direct accès through some comfortably fortified exit. I tryed a bit as a spy on the last moment, but defender are some crammed in this zone that any action is more a gamble than anything else. Maybe the path for red defenders is quite too small. Yes, ctf push is all about instant capture but at the moment approaching the whole thing can be too tricky.

Another point, is the overtime choice with blue not losing the intelligence. I do know its the choice of most ctf_push maps, even if it's a bit susceptible to griefing, but in our case, it could mean than for 5-6 legit minutes, there could be 2-3 "overtime" ones, thus, weakening the whole concept of the legit counter.
You could either set a absolute time limit, or make the intel reset time considerably shorter while in overtime.

My last concern would be with the cap point design. You can escape the orthodoxy of a whole capture prop on the ground and else, and I liked your idea of pressing the intel against some computer, but people were a bit troubled. I think some distinctive pattern on the ground would help, be it trims or decal. For this reason, reds were at the beginning a bit puzzled whether they were in front of the first or second Capture point : some signs/closed doors would help.

I think the map is already very intuitive and a fair bit the layout is really enjoyable to play. My only true concern is about the more defended indoor zones.
 
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Radaka

L420: High Member
May 24, 2009
491
244
Spud did say that he would change the overtime to be either as soon as the flag was dropped, or have no overtime at all. I love reviews like the one directly above my post :).
 

Dr. Spud

Grossly Incandescent
aa
Mar 23, 2009
880
855
Yes, thanks so much for the run down! The overtime thing is a glitch - it's because I didn't find the time to change it since the classless update. I'm going to remove overtime completely; there's no good way to make it work.

CP 2-2 has always been a troublesome point. From my experience, the actual difficultly level is just about right (Although I definitely haven't tested it thoroughly). I'm still experimenting a bit to make it feel better. Don't be surprised if you see that area opened up a bit more in the next version.

Can you give me specific examples of any areas that felt too cramped?
 

PenPen

L5: Dapper Member
Apr 24, 2008
207
136
As told during gameday...

1-2 and 2-2 are hard-to-capture points that are easily defended by sentries with good positioning. Moreso with 2-2 because of the sentry spot I mentioned, but in addition to that, there's this issue where blu basically has two paths to get to the intel. I think I might've covered that in an earlier post, and as mentioned in game you can add a balcony (maybe) or more alternate paths for blu to attack the point.

Maybe make the sentry spot I mentioned into a path or just cover it with random crates so at least the sentry won't be buildable with coverage help from the door next to the corner.

1-2 is still hard but I think with a well-coordinated effort from blu it's easier to capture.
 

PenPen

L5: Dapper Member
Apr 24, 2008
207
136
I assume you mean to get to the CP? That's not an issue, it's the design of the map. 3 paths works in AD CP, but in AD CTF it becomes too easy.

But I agree that in the map's current state those two CPs are too hard.


Yeah, I meant the CP. :facepalm:
Staying up at 3am makes me confused at times.
 

Zwiffle

L6: Sharp Member
Jun 24, 2008
269
161
This map looks really good. It's obvious you put a lot of effort into how good it looks. Game play suffers in some areas though. When I played, it was a full 12v12, and the game play delineated into just spamming rockets/nades like a mad man.

CP 1-1 was pretty good, this was never not taken within the first few minutes. I assume that's fine, given it IS the first point after all. The broken window is a good addition for flanking and rocket/nade jumping for captures. I think this area is fine.

CP 1-2 however is a different story. There are routes that shouldn't exist, and some routes that should but don't. Mainly, the two sets of stairs leading to the balcony promotes a stalemate - Red camping with no way for Blue to work into Red's side, so to speak.
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpneedsflank02.jpg/
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpneedsflank01.jpg/

The area under the balcony would make for a fine little alternate route to connect somewhere out of the way, so that Blue has a chance to flank.

http://img215.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute01.jpg/


Now there are two flanking pathways, one over the other, and they both come out at about the same place. This makes the bottom one redundant since the top one is strictly better, and the bottom one is easily watched and spammed from the catwalk. Both can be watched from the same area, making them both weak to the same defensive spot.

http://img136.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpnotneeded01.jpg/
http://img136.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpnotneeded02.jpg/

I think you should remove that path, and instead make that archway a main assault path for Blue. You would probably have to raise it up and add a ramp downward, but this would allow for a big uber push, open up the area and make it not so claustrophobic. You might have to be careful of sniper LoS though.

http://img22.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpassaultentrance.jpg/
http://img183.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpassaultentrance.jpg/

We never got past point 2-2. Point 2-1 seemed alright, we didn't have much trouble breaking through that, but at the time I think the teams were stacked. Still, don't have much to say about it, seems good enough.

Point 2-2 had a hell of a grinder though. All the paths weave into a single corridor, which becomes basically a contest of who can spam the most explosives. It was very aggravating. No progress could be made because red could very easily defend this grinder.
This is the what death looks like for Blue.
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpgrinder01.jpg/

Making two alternate flanking routes might help this out a lot, though, and I don't even think it would be that hard to fix.
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute03.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute02.jpg/

Seems simple enough. Alleviate some of that combat flow to these small side flanking routes and I think suddenly the point should be a little more fair.