1. Hey there Guest,

    The game servers have moved to semi-dedicated hardware and IPs have changed. Please see front page server widget for up-to-date game server information.

Yodel Peak

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by gastrop0d, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. gastrop0d

    gastrop0d L3: Member

    Messages:
    110
    Positive Ratings:
    33
    First version of my first properly considered and developed TF2 map. It's cyclic control point game type, with 4 asymmetrically structured points.

    Currently extremely rough geometry and low detail. Hoping to get as much feedback as required on the game play balancing before I proceed with making it pretty. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  2. Zanpa

    Zanpa L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    164
    Positive Ratings:
    43
    It looks very open (and huge). I hope the cover you put in will be enough so that Snipers aren't OP, but it seems good.

    When/Where can we test it ?
     
  3. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

    Messages:
    144
    Positive Ratings:
    18
    like the starting look! will be checking back for updates! :D
     
  4. Hanz

    aa Hanz Ravin' Rabbid

    Messages:
    844
    Positive Ratings:
    474
    Like Zanpa said, the map looks very open, but I can't see if it's very sniper-friendly or not.

    Also, the building at the third screen are looking a bit odd, imo.

    But, good start and I'm looking forward to play it on gameday! :)
     
  5. gastrop0d

    gastrop0d L3: Member

    Messages:
    110
    Positive Ratings:
    33
    Thanks. Yes is a very open and large map, that was my biggest concern about it. But during its design I constantly went back and thought about sight lines and where snipers should/should not be able to hit. Normally if a sniper can watch an open area he himself is exposed to a lot of retaliation. Still, it remains to be tested; I barely play sniper so I don't really `know' the class. :)

    The other thing is once the rough layout plays well, I'll start with the displacements, adding bumps and ditches to push (for instance) the trees at B (second screenshot) higher to provide more cover from long range on that open right side, just tweaking game play elements like that.

    Zanpa: I'm submitting it for upcoming gamedays on US & EU servers.

    Mr. Hanz: you mean the look of the building is odd? I agree, but there's plenty of time to dress it up to look more sensible (as sensible as things get in TF2, anyway) in the future. :)
     
  6. gastrop0d

    gastrop0d L3: Member

    Messages:
    110
    Positive Ratings:
    33
    Updated. Went over cp A and addressed a few issues. Added the following:

    - Ramp for defenders to get back to spawn
    - Wall at A to stop a lot of push-off-weapon whoring at the major incursion point
    - Some minor cover on the roof
     
  7. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    774
    Positive Ratings:
    133
    The trees are pretty rough. I jumped into them from a path above them and got stuck.

    The location of cap point A is pretty counter-intuitive from the spawn right next to it....possibly because point A is below the spawn IIRC.

    I really dislike the spawn to the left of C....it seems too high and out of the way to me...but I'm not sure what exactly what you're going for in regards to spawn locations.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

    Messages:
    1,466
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    this got some bad reception at gameday, don't take it to heart because 99% of the issue was size. *no pun*

    The map is just WAY to big and lacks proper signing.

    Scale down the map, get a lot more signs in there, and fix your clipping.

    Layout wise i didn't see to wrong. With the current size of the map however its hard to give any sort of feedback on class balance. Keep it up!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,768
    Yea, i'm not sure i can speak about class balance effectively when the teams had some fairly good players all on one team during this match.

    The major complaint was height, although i did enjoy gameplay flow around point B. Travel wasn't always as bad as most people seemed to make out and i say that when playing a soldier, but it could get annoying if you keep getting taken out by sneaky enemies behind the lines. It was quite easy to get lost on your own. My main complaint would probably just be the long corridors that connect everything up.

    Point A seemed impossible to find, i seemed to walk past sign after sign and never reach it. Classes of choice were scout for speed, and soldier and demoman for their explosive jumping techniques. Sniper was also a favourite but the scouts seemed to deter most of them.

    The general size meant that players did go wandering off on their own which could be a problem in pub play, people got lost in being able to rocket/grenade jump around the place which distracted them from the goals.

    Cap times seemed reasonable boardering on the long side. Fix your spawn signs.. a couple times i got taken out when retreating only to find a broken door, or atleast, the spawn said it was blue when it was infact red (The one overlooking B).

    You need to reduce the general size of the map to justify engineers and smooth out game flow and generally balance all the classes. Reduce some heights. Vertical combat is a significant part of TF2 gameplay and it's good that you noticed this, but at times it was a bit much.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. engoldin

    engoldin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    80
    Positive Ratings:
    10
    Don't completely ignore the gameday/SourceTV footage. You did get some constructive comments as well.
     
  11. gastrop0d

    gastrop0d L3: Member

    Messages:
    110
    Positive Ratings:
    33
    I'd like to thank everyone for the really helpful feedback. As I said, this is my first map so there was a lot of unknowns for me when implementing my design. I'm disappointed I couldn't be in the servers for all of the plays of the map (my friends kidnapped me for too-much-drinking and cult movies), but I still think the feedback I have will contribute greatly to getting this map playable.
    I'm chewing over this. When I reduce the map size there's a pretty good chance a number of trees will come out. I wanted the trees to be a sort of chaotic cover from enemies high up, but there's no overwhelming reason why players need to go over the top of them. So I'm thinking maybe of player-clipping that area off.
    I'm thinking more signs to lead to A in general is a must, but I was also considering adding a hatch that drops straight onto the point from the spawn room...
    I'll probably be bringing that spawn in closer to the point. But the idea of the design of that point is that the defenders can spawn and go up into the overhead shaft and drop down on key areas around the point. I've yet to watch the SourceTV demos, so I haven't seen all the play, but as far as I know I don't think anyone really discovered that route, which is bad since it's supposed to be pretty pivotal to the defenders' maneuverability at C. So something I'm considering there is to actually move the spawn room upstairs and point one of the exits into the shaft, and the other to downstairs.

    Yeah for the first few minutes I was a little embarrassed, but really I didn't expect a glowing response. I'm just glad people managed to highlight as many useful points as they could given how the map played.

    Yeah when I thought about it later my guess was that one of the main culprits is all the mundayne connection areas. I'll be focusing a fair bit of attention in culling those and pushing the gameplay into the main combat areas.

    Actually I didn't consider the sign colours such an important detail when I was getting the map ready for gameday, but now that I've thought about it I needed to be very clear with that, so I'll be working considerably on clarifying spawn points for the next version.

    Yeah I've been having a number of ideas for evening out the heights on areas to give people a bit more of a break from them, and in general I think the heights will need to be lowered a little just to work on a smaller-area map. In fact I think the current heights are one of the key contributing factors to the grossly oversized area of the map.

    Oh of course. I actually recorded my own personal demo as well, and went over it a few times taking down notes on issues people had. I'm downloading the SourceTV stuff now and am eagerly waiting to check it out. :)
     
  12. Engineer

    aa Engineer

    Messages:
    1,166
    Positive Ratings:
    376
    Allmost everyone were scouts. It was kinda hard to find anything in yhis map. You should make it 2x smaller. I could get stuck in trees.
     
  13. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

    Messages:
    1,054
    Positive Ratings:
    466
    To a certain extent, I liked how large it was, it gave me the opportunity to do some pretty nice demo jumping (in fact you can go all the way from B to A with 2 stickies)