- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
oh neat! Never knew of this feature. Thanks haha 
Working on a Map!
- Thread starter Exelaratore
- Start date
- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
Here are the Blueprints for my Second idea for a KotH map. I made both spawns away and not facing the control point so there isn't any spawn trapping like there was in my first idea. I was wondering if I should add an area right next to the spawns when you leave to go up stairs and look out windows upon the capture point. but then I second thought that when I realized it could be a bit op.. I don't know. Leave me your feedback! I appreciate it!
- Sean
Fish 2.0
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 22, 2012
- 324
- 262
If you take a look on either side of the point you have staircases that are redundant, a sightlines from one end of the map to the other and only one way to get onto or to the other side of the point - through the middle.
This could make classes like
-Sniper*
-Pyro*
-Enigneer
-Heavy
-Demo*
Over powered
and it would make classes with low health like
-Scout
-Spy
Very under powerd.
One thin important in mapping is flow. As a mapper you need to direct the flow of the players to the places you want them to be. Obviously, you want majority of the players in general on the point but if you have a look at it this way;
Where do you want the spies to be? You want them to be on the enemy side, infiltrating their base killing off people on their own side. Now ask yourself, how are they going to get there? Are they able to with any spy cloaking item? You will quickly see that unless they use the Dead Ringer and Spycicle they will will quickly die or be discovered to either random, compressed bullet spray over the main point, bumping into someone or being set on fire from compressed pyro spam.
Where you you want engineers to set up? They could easily set up in one of those wings on either side to create an OP killing funnel from the point to either side.
Why are there rooms to the side that lead nowhere? What advantages does that give a team at any one time? I see a staircase that redundantly leads nowhere.
Basically what I'm saying is you need to have routes for players to take around the point. What I'm seeing now is a bullet funnel that goes straight to the other side. There is usually a route along one side of the point so players can navigate around and behind for surprise. I'm thinking the curves nature of the design would make it bias to one side if there was only one way around the point, but two ways around a point would be OP and the action wouldn't be focused so much on the centre. Maybe straighten it out and add a flanking route to one side.
In general you need more than one route to or around something. Good luck.
This could make classes like
-Sniper*
-Pyro*
-Enigneer
-Heavy
-Demo*
Over powered
and it would make classes with low health like
-Scout
-Spy
Very under powerd.
One thin important in mapping is flow. As a mapper you need to direct the flow of the players to the places you want them to be. Obviously, you want majority of the players in general on the point but if you have a look at it this way;
Where do you want the spies to be? You want them to be on the enemy side, infiltrating their base killing off people on their own side. Now ask yourself, how are they going to get there? Are they able to with any spy cloaking item? You will quickly see that unless they use the Dead Ringer and Spycicle they will will quickly die or be discovered to either random, compressed bullet spray over the main point, bumping into someone or being set on fire from compressed pyro spam.
Where you you want engineers to set up? They could easily set up in one of those wings on either side to create an OP killing funnel from the point to either side.
Why are there rooms to the side that lead nowhere? What advantages does that give a team at any one time? I see a staircase that redundantly leads nowhere.
Basically what I'm saying is you need to have routes for players to take around the point. What I'm seeing now is a bullet funnel that goes straight to the other side. There is usually a route along one side of the point so players can navigate around and behind for surprise. I'm thinking the curves nature of the design would make it bias to one side if there was only one way around the point, but two ways around a point would be OP and the action wouldn't be focused so much on the centre. Maybe straighten it out and add a flanking route to one side.
In general you need more than one route to or around something. Good luck.
nightwatch
aa
- Sep 7, 2012
- 638
- 500
Some suggestions:
First, having a big empty point area is not very fun. Put some obstacles or fun geometry for the classes to play around near the point! (purple)
Additionally, flank routes play a huge role in making a map fun, enjoyable, and class-balanced. I would suggest that something like the (blue) route would be better, as the (red route) is too much of a shortcut and it might turn into the main route to the point.
First, having a big empty point area is not very fun. Put some obstacles or fun geometry for the classes to play around near the point! (purple)
Additionally, flank routes play a huge role in making a map fun, enjoyable, and class-balanced. I would suggest that something like the (blue) route would be better, as the (red route) is too much of a shortcut and it might turn into the main route to the point.
- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
Alright, I've tweaked the blueprints. I have moved both spawns so the old spawn room is now a side path around the capture point (flank route). I have also added a room with a window to be semi-protected while shooting at the capture point (note that sentries cannot shoot from the window in this area). I have also added a few more obstacles like the black wall that will partly prevent a drastic bullet funnel. and I have made use of the room with the ladder to the left and right sides of the map (you can now enter the room from the spawn, which is what most snipers might do). Tell me if you think there is anything else that could be an issue or if I tweaked it in an oddly fashion in which I could have struck more issues.
Thanks!
-Sean
Thanks!
-Sean
Last edited:
nightwatch
aa
- Sep 7, 2012
- 638
- 500
This is the exact opposite of your other blueprint, which had no flank. This has TOO MUCH flank. Try to imagine your point area as a single room, with 2-3 exits towards blu spawn and 2-3 exits towards red spawn. Passages that skip the point completely make the game too difficult for classes like heavy that are susceptible to flanking and they make other classes overpowered. Try something between your two versions.
- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
Alright, How is this? Moved spawn back to its original position. so there is more walking. but I think I have managed to make a flank that still keeps the players focused on the capture point.
nightwatch
aa
- Sep 7, 2012
- 638
- 500
That looks a lot better, if you can't go through the windows. Not sure about sightlines, but in terms of gameplay space and routes it looks promising.
- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
Sweet! What would sightlines be? would that mean how much you can see all the players?
goatcheese3
L1: Registered
- Dec 30, 2012
- 37
- 5
Sightlines are how far a sniper can see.
If the sightlines are too long, wide, or flat, the sniper is overpowered, and if the sightline is too short, narrow, or hilly, the sniper has less power.
If the sightlines are too long, wide, or flat, the sniper is overpowered, and if the sightline is too short, narrow, or hilly, the sniper has less power.
henke37
aa
- Sep 23, 2011
- 2,075
- 515
A sight line is exactly that, a line of sight. Draw a line from A to B on the map, that's a sight line.
The trick here is finding the important ones. Looking down a hallway is different from barely peeking around three corners and standing on a hill. A sight line is a potential bullet path. Many weapons have infinite range. Especially the sniper rifles.
The trick here is finding the important ones. Looking down a hallway is different from barely peeking around three corners and standing on a hill. A sight line is a potential bullet path. Many weapons have infinite range. Especially the sniper rifles.
Fish 2.0
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 22, 2012
- 324
- 262
I'm still feeling a bit wry on the fact that you have to pass close to the point to get past it. Official map flank routes go around the point, and what you have provided is just another means to the same end...
Play testing is by far the best bet to tell if it's working or not.
Play testing is by far the best bet to tell if it's working or not.
- Jul 22, 2009
- 1,874
- 1,257
Alright, How is this? Moved spawn back to its original position. so there is more walking. but I think I have managed to make a flank that still keeps the players focused on the capture point.
i disagree with killing the flanks. now every path leads into the cp which will likely result in one team sitting on one side of cp, other on the other, and a hell of spam in between with no room for tacticool maneuvers and sneak attacks. you basically have viaduct here.
other than that, make it and see what happens in practice
- Mar 18, 2013
- 91
- 56
Currently in the process of creating the map! When I would like to show you pictures of the map and my progress, I will most likely post a thread in the map workshop, so don't forget to check there. I really am grateful to have your guys advice. Thank you!
Something I'm surprised no one mentioned yet is height variation. Is the entirety of the map on one level, not counting the rooms separated by staircases? Generally maps will have some amount of height shifting among the various combat areas. Here, it looks like it's just the spawn and some tiny out-of-the-way room.
Spacek531
L4: Comfortable Member
- Jan 28, 2012
- 165
- 94
it seemed to work out OK in Well.
Well, as Arena, CTF and Medieval Mode, it's preety darn bad and it can't be saved.
I was joking, not being serious.
Arena is actually my second favorite gamemode - TC coming first.
Why do things I like never get played?