[WIP] cp_silo_mountain

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Tony Shwiztana, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    !!UNDERHEAVY CONSTRUCTION!!

    Im going back through and rebuilding from scratch, shrinking all the play areas and shrinking the paths between and two each cap for faster gameplay.



    So I have been working on this CP map of mine for well, since i joined tf2mappers basicly, i've built it and torn it down, several times learning, optimizing to the best of what i've learned, and so on and so forth, And I feel that im ready for my first beta. Im not sure that Im supposed to be calling it a beta yet or not, correct me please if I'm wrong this is my first release of any sort.

    My plan was to create a Map similar to my favorite valve map, Gravel Pit, but I've added a twist, Im going for Gpit with a kinda dustbowl ending. Hopefully Im atleast somewhat successful in that, but hopefully more successful in just having a map the runs semi decent in the earlier stages and has potential and perhaps a future.

    The map takes place at the peak of a mountain where Red has built a secret missle base, Blue found out about the base from some intelligence from previous battles. After taking the ground base, Blue takes a mine shaft elevator, to what is their spawn. The Map is attack and defend like Gravel pit, With a forth capture point.



    download at
    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=952

    Beta 5
    -Rebuilt D
    -red has a new second respawn
    -add secondary path to D
    -added doors to C basement at A and AB entrances (open at point A and B capped)
    -cleaned up displacments a bit
    -shunk a bit more play area
    -changed some props around the map (thanks to Velvetfistironglove for rock upload)
    -changed rock texture to alpine rockwall texture (thanks to JoshuaC for upload)
    -got heavy stretcher model working finaly (I HOPE!) (thanks to mic for upload)
    -Added second first to second floor stairway At A



    Beta 4
    - added a new entrance/exit to C
    - added another exit to red spawn at D
    - Fixed all doors


    Beta 3
    - added lighting in a few spots
    - added more direction for red
    - Set Respawn wave times
    - fixed a few player clips
    - took a suggestion and shrunk A play area slightly
    - Fixed ambient Light
    - added more props for depth

    Beta 2 released:
    25% smaller
    Red wins when time runs out
    C can no longer be capped back
    more signs added (still need a few more)
    tree brushes are more realistic now


    if anyone has time to test this on their servers it would be greatly appreciated
    all feedback is aswell.

    thanks to Grim for putting it on his server for me

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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  2. Dustoxx

    Dustoxx L6: Sharp Member

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    looks nice!
     
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  3. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    I wouldn't mind getting ahold of that purplish alpine rock texture to see what my mountain would look like with that. I had another kind of idea but I have no idea how to make textures so i just went with rock wall 003 i believe it is
     
  4. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    You need to make the map smaller, in every aspect.
    Make all the separate areas smaller and then place them closer to each other. The goal should be to minimize the travel time (spawn -> front line) for both teams. It may feel like a good and normal size when you're just testing it. But if the map gets into a regular rotation it wont be long until people start getting sick of all the walking.
    Take Gravel pit as an example. Notice how the tunnels leading to the next area are super short. This is very hard to replicate without using the same general layout, but with careful planning the travel time on any map can be lowered significantly.

    More signs are needed all over, but especially around the captures. It's important to tell the people that are capping where to go next, otherwise they will all run separate ways and die instead of attacking in a group.

    The bloom scale might be a little high too, or maybe not (I have been fiddling with my gfx settings lately so I can't tell good bloom from bad atm) :)

    And model textures needs to be replaced.

    Don't be afraid to do major reconstruction work on your maps, better get it done sooner rather than later.
     
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  5. dirtyminuth

    dirtyminuth L5: Dapper Member

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    After running around the map (and decompiling it), I've got a couple comments:

    * The map is too large. You need to scale it down by at least 25%. Gameplay will suffer (spies can't cover any useful length, sentries will be very ineffective, slower classes won't be worth the time, and scout / sniper will absolutely dominate).

    * Additionally, here are the sizes of the playable areas (far too large for all of them):
    * CP A : 3500 x 3600
    * CP B : 3400 x 3900
    * CP C : 3700 x 3100
    * CP D : 2700 x 2000
    * BLU Spawn (first) : 2000 x 2000
    * BLU Spawn (at A) : 1200 x 1300
    * BLU Spawn (at B) : 1000 x 1100
    * RED Spawn (at C) : 600 x 700
    * RED Spawn (at D) : 600 x 700

    * You're using model textures. Specifically, models/props_2fort/roof_metal001, models/props_badlands/buildings_floor01, models/props_badlands/buildings_redwood_walls01, and models/props_farm/wood_beam01. Replace these with their non-model equivalent.

    * You're using a couple HL2 textures (one metal, one tile). They don't stand out, and I don't have a problem with them, but some people might.

    * The glass ceiling / windows at point C (the Starcraft bunker) should have nodraw textures on everything but the top and bottom faces. You have glass textures on the 'inside edges'.

    * The clip spikes for the tree models are too wide at the base. Thus, you can get 'trapped' between two of them. Reduce the size of the base (I used a hexagonal cylinder for the trunk in my map). Also, you can get trapped between mountain walls and these clip brushes.

    * Tunnels need more lighting. Yes, tunnels are dark, but you need to strike a balance between realism and playability.

    * One more: don't forget the displacement seam at the tunnel ext leading from BLU spawn to CP A.

    * I like the setting, and you've got a good handle on more complex brushwork. You just need to work on scale (which comes with experience). Keep it up!
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  6. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    the point of the clips in the trees is so people don't go through them. if i wanted people going through them, i would just leave them the way they are. maybe i'll shrink them a bit
     
  7. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Too easy to snipe C from D at present...but I feel I shouldn't comment since we weren't playing the latest version...
     
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  8. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    Any comments are still good, i feel you are correct, and im working on editing that. the size is the biggest problem, and its linked to every other problem im having with the map basicly, beta too should give me a feel for how it will work in the end, i don't feel it needs to be any smaller, hopefully others agree, snipers won't be as much a problem if all the classes become playable.
     
  9. KarmaKaze

    KarmaKaze L2: Junior Member

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    Played this map for first time today...had a few things I noticed.

    Some of your stairs still give the player a noticeable "shake" as he runs up and down them...maybe player clip or move the player clip if you already have them to smooth them out.

    There is a broken cabinet near one of the points. Doors don't open and it does not dispense health. (On the other side of the room below.) And I am not sure if that cabinet room belongs to one team or not but both can go in.
    [​IMG]

    Like I said, this is my first time on this map, but I really had a hard time finding D...maybe some additional signage for D.

    I think overall this map looks really good...look forward to playing it again.
     
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  10. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    After Reds spawn is forwarded to D from C, the func regen at c is disabled and a health and ammo pack are enabled and its opened to both teams so they can fight to use it as an engie base with teleporters. the no build is also diabled so that the teleporters can be placed behind the doors
     
  11. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    It's big. REAL big. I played with you last week, maybe a few weeks ago and we only had a few players. Today we started early so not sure if you made it. There were only teams of 3v3 or 4v4 again. Probably doesn't help the size any. It felt large and a few people said so.

    I think that's the biggest issue (no pun intended). I'd like to see it on a full server to see how gameplay carried out. I think if it stays this size it's gonna need a full server.

    I'd actually be really curious to see it shrunk down like 25% literally. Select the whole level and shrink it, you would need to reorganize the props though. Not neccessarily a fun job but might improve it quite a bit. I did this with my arena map and it really made a big difference.
    I still think it would be large even if you did that, fortunatly all of your tunnels and entry ways are large so shrinking them wouldn't matter imo.

    Good to see you got the ambient light color fixed, it looked good.

    Whether or not you shrink it the few improvements I think you could make are:

    displacements. Smooth them out more. Alot of 'rocky'/bumpy terrain. You want hills and rises but not jaggedness. That makes it hard to get around and in a fast paced game you don't want to be stumbling and tripping. This was also my critique of 'cp_erosion' which I actually thought was one of the better looking maps I've seen lately. But I stumbled and got caught on stuff alot and it made it harder and less enjoyable.

    Point D. granted there were few players, but a heavy was standing inside the spawn room door. I was pyro and would run under him and light him up, he just ran back into the cabinet and got health and came back and camped the point again. I had to run all the way around the point to scrounge a few tiny health packs. Once a sentry was built by the cap and the heavy was on the other side there was no way to get in there at all.

    So I'd suggest putting the red spawn in a building in the cliff away from the point. Then red has to set-up and stay alive not just stand in spawn and spam the point. Put some kind of cover on the point inside the building also so someone can go in there and survive.
    If it stays as is the only way to cap it would be for blu to have several lvl 3 teles right outside and just swarm in on red and I don't know if that would work if red was even only slightly competent.
     
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  12. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    I have already shrunk it down 25% once before, I had tried it at 50% and the height was to short so im not sure, about that one, I have been thinking of just making some of the larger side areas smaller so that it seems a bit smaller, and I have been thinking of giving D quite the overhaul. I think with a full server, it won't seem quite so big.

    I also know I have a few spots where I see Low fps, Im not positive on whats to low, and just kinda low but still rather playable, I've seen some low spots in a few valve maps before if anyone could let me know what they see in general all around would be nice.

    Also, I don't really understand how to use hint brushes, and not really sure where would be good places to put area portals, and which portals to use, I have read that really good and recommended optimization guide, but I find that thought thurough he doesn't explain how to use hints on a much larger scale or in more complex areas. If anyone could give me some pointers that would be great too.
     
  13. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    for hints compile your map. Then go in editor and load portal file (under map section I belive).

    It'll draw blue lines all over the place. Those are your visleafs. Hints cut those up more.

    Basically you want to find the real long ones (like in that tut) and cut them up so you can't see them from other areas. Or see parts of them rather. too much isn't good, only do it if it will help. Sorry, it's hard to explain much more than that, it's something you have to mess with and learn or have someone else walk you through it, I find doing that stuff difficult over the interweb.

    For portals you want to use area_portals almost exclusively. Hide everything except world spawn. Then put them in the door openings, window openings, holes in floor, etc... But you have to make sure you seal them.
    So if a room has 2 doors put one in each, now you have a 'sealed' room. All the objects in this room will now NOT render if they can't be seen.

    Put one at the end of each tunnel entrance, etc...
     
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  14. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    I did a little playing with the area portals and put them in sections of the tunnels, but i used areaportalwindow, but all i saw was a white glare, it really didn't work out, and i had the start and end units at a pretty decent number so that it would open before you got to it, but it didn't work out, and i took them away
     
  15. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Area portal windows are the debil....and I think i did a thread last week called that if you want more info :)
     
  16. Tony Shwiztana

    Tony Shwiztana L1: Registered

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    I am trying to decide something, I debating over weather I should put doors in the two cave entraces that head to C, that only open from the red side of the door. or weather to put on only in the entrance that is close to blue respawn 1.
    Either way i would make it so the doors were forced open upon capping a and b
    any thoughts?
     
  17. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    I'll have to take another look and get back to you :)
     
  18. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Well, I'll be taking a look at b5 i guess, putting it on the server now
     
  19. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Here's some suggestions, mainly a light rehash of what we discussed while on the map:
     
  20. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    There's clipping issues with this bridge right here:

    [​IMG]

    You had to jump onto it to walk across it from this end here. A playerclip brush would do nicely.
     
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