[WIP] cp_drylands

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Randdalf, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Back to mapping!

    Drylands is a non-linear 5-CP map (like Granary, Well, Badlands etc.). I've currently finished the layout, health/ammo placement (although that's likely to change), spawns (which are also likely to be enlarged, many are too small) and entity system.

    I plan to give it a desert theme similar to Badwater. There are no roofs on some buildings in the first alpha, so I have clipped this version quite extensively to prevent some exploits from this. There are some tiny hitches here and there in the map (doors around the second points going through walls, being able to see the rest of the map). There is currently no lighting or skybox; this version has been compiled with fullbright and cordons.

    It's quite important to notice that throughout the map there are only two distinct levels of floor geometry (which is not entirely obvious at first), excluding displacement ramps and stairwells. This should make the optimisation job, for me, much easier.

    Screenshot of the current version:

    [​IMG]

    I hope to get some playtesting done with this before I begin making the necessary changes.

    (First time using pakrat, so hopefully I've done it right)

    Downloads (most recent in italics):
    cp_drylands_a1 http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a1rar/;13166256;/fileinfo.html
    cp_drylands_a2 http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a2bspbz2/;13188012;/fileinfo.html
    cp_drylands_a2a http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a2abspbz2/;13250435;/fileinfo.html
    cp_drylands_a3 http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a3rar/;13308695;/fileinfo.html
    cp_drylands_a4 http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a4rar/;13384170;/fileinfo.html
    (Contains .bsp, readme and .bz2 for server admins)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  2. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    bump

    I was wondering if some server admins could run some tests with this.

    I've found a few problems, and here's a to-do list on the current version

    • Remove delay on some door triggers
    • Add lighting, roofs and skybox
    • Restructure some of the final point

    We played a bit on the maps server yesterday but it was only 4v4 at peak. I've submitted this for gameday, so hopefully I can see some full server stuff going on there.
     
  3. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

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    I was there it was really to add a little cover from the SGs at last point. Just FYI as people were running through doors and getting blown to bits.
     
  4. zpqrei

    aa zpqrei Theme Changer Extraordinaire

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    Damn good! Looks nice!

    What style will it be? Desert? Alpine? Industrial? Farm?
     
  5. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Desert-ish. I'm going for badwater crossed with badlands.

    I've kind of changed that to-do list to a feature list I expect to finish in the next few days:

    Code:
    - Bug fixes:
       * Fixed spawn doors not opening
       * Fixed RED's side not having some health/ammo packs
       * Fixed improperly scaled hazard strips
    - Improvements:
       * Added roofs to some buildings
       * Added signs
       * Added skybox and lighting
    - Balancing:
       * Added new health pack to second points
       * Added new balcony to final points
       * Added more cover to final points
       * Changed height of cover on final points
    I'm also considering removing the sentry cover, but the new balcony should balance it. Either way, that cover wall is halving in height.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  6. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Right I've completed cp_drylands_a2, I'll leave doing a3 until after the gameday unless there are some major game breakers in it.

    Download cp_drylands_a2

    Here's a screenshot and some update notes:

    [​IMG]

    Code:
    [B]Alpha 2[/B]
    - Bug fixes:
       * Fixed spawn doors not opening
       * Fixed RED's side not having some health/ammo packs
       * Fixed improperly scaled hazard strips
    - Improvements:
       * Added signs
       * Added skybox and lighting
       * Slightly relocated ammo/health near final point
    - Balancing:
       * Added new health pack to second points
       * Added new balcony to final points
       * Added more cover to final points
       * Changed height of cover on final points
       * Can no longer jump through windows at central point
       * Added new health/ammo packs in new balcony area
     
  7. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    A little practice I've been doing to get ready for the detailing stage. This is not necessarily how it will be themed though.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Fearlezz

    Fearlezz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Wow that building is looking good. I love how you use the different heights in your layout.
     
  9. meekrob

    meekrob L1: Registered

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    A few suggestions...

    Lets name the points BLUE 1, BLUE 2, MIDDLE, RED 2, and RED 1 for the sake of simplicity. BLUE 1 and RED 1 are the points right at the spawn.

    During the game day testing I felt that the ramp down to the bases were a little too choked on a heavily populated server. A few suggestions....

    1. At both BLUE 2 and RED 2 there is a balcony with two windows overlooking the big two story room with the point in the middle. At the balcony there is a staircase that I think should be removed. You could add a hole in the floor on the second level to drop down from. This makes this area only really accessible to the enemy team.

    2. Damn, I forgot the rest. When I play it again I will post more.
     
  10. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I like the layout. It's still early but I think if it all ends up looking as good as that buiilding it'll be a really cool map.

    I think the defending team could use an alternate path to mid instead of going up dirt ramp.
     
  11. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Yeah I definately planned to do that after today's gameday. The idea about the hole is a good one, it definately will add another edge to the attack.

    However, I can't really think of a way to give the defenders of 2 a way of attack. Maybe I'll add some kind of stairs up to the area behind the mid buildings.

    One criticism people had were the sightlines leading up to the base. Whilst this may be a problem, not only are there many alternate paths but this distance is no longer, possibly smaller than the same area leading up to the Badlands Spire. However, adding cover of some sort may benefit the defender's push back to the middle.

    The one problem I think there is with the 2nd cap is that the attackers have a constant height advantage over the defenders, and only when the attackers are capping the point are they likely to be at a height disadvantage. Some options to solve this could be:
    • Remove the bridge (replaced by the new alternate route)
    • Block all windows from being fired through
    • Give the defenders a balcony above the doors leading into the point

    Giving the defenders another advantage could be a problem, so the proposed solutions may need to be tweaked (for example the balcony could have no cover)

    This is a big problem, so I'm hoping to solve it in one big swoop, if you will. One tiny problem I have as well is that no team managed to get to the final point so the next alpha needs to fix that.

    Now, here's the planned changelist for the next alpha:

    Code:
    Alpha 3
    - Bug fixes:
       * Fixed spawn doors not opening, again
       * Fixed HDR
    - Improvements:
       * Enlarged all spawn areas for ease of use
       * Added roofs to some buildings
       * Dynamic base doors now make an opening sound
       * Implemented the Badlands skybox
    - Balancing:
       * Added cover leading up to the 2nd point
       * Added new alternate route from 2nd cap to bridge area
       * (Undecided solution)
    
    Thanks for the feedback/testing :D
     
  12. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    I've done a quick fix version for playtesting, here's the change list and download link:

    Code:
    Alpha 2a 09/02/09
    - Bug fixes:
       * Fixed spawn doors not opening, again
       * Fixed some improperly positioned func_respawnrooms
       * Fixed leaking origins
       * Fixed game not ending on stalemate
    - Improvements:
       * Enlarged all spawn areas for ease of use
       * Added roofs to some buildings
       * Implemented the Badlands skybox/light_env
    - Balancing:
       * Replaced stairs at 2nd CP with drop down
    Download: http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a2abspbz2/;13250435;/fileinfo.html
     
  13. Classy

    Classy L1: Registered

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    Nice map Randdalf the only part I don't like is the second point, seeing as the attacker can't push in and the defenders can't push out well enough.
     
  14. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    I'm making 2 major changes to the second point, firstly, as shown in the screenshot linked below, I've changed the attackers balcony so that they can more easily get rid of some pesky sentries. I've aso reduced 2 ammo pack sizes in the area. In the current version, a2a, I've replaced some stairs with a drop-down which will also help the attackers. To help the defenders push out, I'm adding a new side route that will open out onto the bridge area, that will help the defenders in flanking.

    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/BioTerrorFrog/cp_drylands_a3balance0001.jpg

    I've also changed the middle for a little more height variation which those competitive types wanted

    http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/BioTerrorFrog/cp_drylands_a3balance0000.jpg

    Now your job is to upload a2a to servers!
     
  15. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Going from point 2 to the middle, the losing team has an extreme disadvantage. They're all forced into that single path, with the other team having a huge height advantage over them. You really need more paths up to high ground for the team that's attacking the middle.
     
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  16. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    I've gone through version a2a on my local machine, here are some thoughts

    -The spawn doors at point 1 are too close to the point. It will be like fastlane, where demos can easily spam the spam and hide inside the gates, as well as get more health. Each of badlands/well/granary has some sort of world geometry so that the point isn't immediately accessible to spawning defenders.
    -Although I like the vertical nature of point 1, it seems like it will be very hard to attack. You either have to go up the long, narrow stairs on the right, or through two narrow chokes on the left (from the defenders point of view).
    -I really like the interior area at point 2, but a lot of the hallways and especially doorways are extremely narrow.
    -You might want to consider a one-way route from 1 to 2, and especially 2 to 3. Something similar to the water on well/freight or the dropdown tunnel on granary. This will make it a little easier to backcap and flank once you've been beaten at mid.
    -I agree with muffinman, it seems like it will be nearly impossible to retake point 3. Even with a one-way tunnel I'm not sure if it wouldn't be too hard still. There needs to be at least one more alternate route between the points.
    -I don't really have anything to say about mid. I like the addition of the crates in your pic. Without actually playing a game on the map it's hard for me to say how the mid battle would turn out, but it seems like it should be pretty fun. I see good opportunities for every class and adequate cover for the medic.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  17. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The biggest trouble with buildings like this is that people either complain about good solly's/demo's exploiting the height and that it should be clipped or that it being clipped makes it look unnatural that you can't use explosives to jump up there.

    It's a lose lose situation.

    Generally.. you'll have to increase the overall height of a building like this and have different levels at height's that more or less look like you can't reach them. In personal experience having a building like this in the middle of a map (for the sakes of eye candy) is bad design ethics not only in terms of game play issues but optimisation also. Buildings like this should be used on map boundaries or kept generally low so that the advantage gained by demo's/solly's isn't overpowered. Allow it to be cleared, even if you allow scouts to climb onto it via their double jump. (Like the centre of ctf_well).

    You will need to seriously consider placement of such an iconic structure within your map. IT would be a focal point or just annoying.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  18. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    I noticed this as well. One of the solutions I have for this, is to remove the back entrance to the buildings, and then create a small courtyard area where that previously was, with an entrance from the second point. What I have in mind is to convert the bridge into a way for the defenders to assault/defend from. I'll also put a blockade in the facade of some warehouse doors (one opened, one closed) underneath it, to add more sniper cover, and to break up the area a bit so that teams can more easily hold areas, like in granary and well as I often saw no such thing happening.

    More later...
     
  19. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    Alpha 3 released!

    [​IMG]

    Code:
    [B]Alpha 3 17/02/09:-[/B]
    - Bug fixes:
       * Fixed HDR
       * Fixed duplicate health/ammo on RED side
    - Improvements:
       * Restructured middle CP for more height variation
       * Moved ammo packs behind containers, and made them medium
       * Halved fog intensity
       * Playerclipped some windows
       * Made some gameplay signs non-solid
    - Balancing:
       * Added new alternate route from 2nd cap to bridge area
       * Restructured 2nd CP attackers balcony
       * Downgraded 2nd CP ammo to small
       * Downgraded final CP balcony ammo to small
       * Restructured area outside 2nd CP
          - Added clipping and crossbeams to the open window
          - Expanded one side of the bridge to accomodate a courtyard
          - Added new alternate route from 2nd cap to courtyard area
          - Removed bridge
          - Removed back entrance to buildings
          - Added med health and small ammo to courtyard
       * Vastly reduced size of raised area above 2nd CP
       * Removed dropdown to 2nd CP; deemed unnecessary
    Download link: http://files.filefront.com/cp+drylands+a3rar/;13308695;/fileinfo.html
    (Contains .bsp, readme and .bz2 file for server admins)
     
  20. pekken

    pekken L1: Registered

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    what about moving last cp down a level?