[WIP]cp_casablanca

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Uriak, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    EDIT : I added here some more recent screens, since the map started quite a long time ago

    [​IMG]
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    So, this is my first map (both for TF2 and generally).

    It is designed as a fast and compact gravelpit-like map, in a small north african city. My main gameplay/architecture intention was to give large room for vertical oriented combat. Of course it didn't end as I intended to, but it's got quite the feeling I wished for.

    Gameplay wise, the map features two different kind of locations : the terrace and roofs, kindom of soldiers and snipers, and the small streets, where pyros and heavy can roam more safely.
    RED have two swan room with 5 exits total. There is 2 permanents exits on each side of C, and 2 only exits directly on A and B, closed on capture. One exit on the rear of C is available after A and B capture. 2 only entrance passages give quick access to supply on the sides of C as well. I did this in hope to avoid harsh spawnkill and give options for flanking.

    The map layout :

    [​IMG]
    BLU spawn is located at the bottom right corner, RED on the upper left. The three CP are located on upperleft, upper right and lower left.

    More snapshots :

    outside the BLU spawn

    [​IMG]

    The spawn itself is upstairs, there is a door useable only by the blue team to get onto the terrace. RED have one single acces on this part of the map, thus preventing occasionnal spawnkill. A fair part of upper positions in casablanca are in the eyesights of snipers, standing still is not an option.

    Capture point A

    [​IMG]

    Blu can use the roof, or the large windows for attacking from above. Two ground corridors offers alternative entrances.

    Capture point B

    [​IMG]
    More opened than the first, this CP features fights on the high terraces and the covered galleries under. BLU have a small niche for hiding themselves begore assault.

    Capture point C

    [​IMG]

    More elaborated. The zone around C is sourrounded by corridors. Two corridors on the sides provide acces from the ground. The tower on the right gives access to three different heigths and is a heated place of confrontation.


    So far, what I've observed : Points A and B haven't shown any large difficulty difference. While distances are not that large, attack isn't easy. Engineers have a more difficult time than in most of attack/defense maps. Point C requires a good load of teamplay to be captured.
    Casablanca is a good place for flanking tactics and mobile defense, two things I do like a lot

    Despite the open structure of casablanca, snipers aren't that bothersome. Many places offers shelters for scouts, pyros and spys.


    Issues and things to do :
    I clearly lack models fitting to this ambience, and so far, casablanca is quite empty, props wise. I still have to add displacements to the ground. Some performance issue seems to arise in high locations such as point C. I've been reducing vertex count for arcades, trying to add portal in most corridors, and diagonal hints wherever possible, but still, the very nature of this map is a threat to optimization. It's not a gamebreaking issue, but I'm likely to have to restrain from further decoration.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  2. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Since our last tests show some nice balance, I'll do my best to correct graphical glitches and add some eye candy in order to give you a link to a decent beta version by the end of the week.

    I've read some interesting tutorial and topics there but one thing still puzzles me : Most of my archs are made from carving with half cylinders and I don't have the nice blending that would come from the arch tool. Do I have to remake them all or there is any way to blend shadowing from different brushes ?
     
  3. Paria

    Paria L5: Dapper Member

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    personally i would re-do them all using the arch tool and then use vertex manipulation to get them to fit into position - for numerous reasons, its just a shame that you have so many arches :D

    the problems with performance probably arise out of the sheer amount of carving you have done to the brushes

    have you looked at the portal file within hammer ? if not i would like to see a screenshot :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  4. R3dRuM

    R3dRuM L6: Sharp Member

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    Looks like a orange map, textured tbh. No prop work or significant overlays other than directional arrows that i can see.
     
  5. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Ignore- didn't realize palmtree was a prefab.

    Try asking around for a palmtree model. I think someone made one for a pirate level on here and they may be willing to share. Anything would be an improvement over that brushwork.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  6. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Oh come on man not those shitty palmtrees from the orange maps! You can do better than that! I'm happy this isn't an orange map, and tbh looks quite interesting if we look at gameplay!
     
  7. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    (what does mean "tbh" ? - I'm french)

    @R3dRuM : As said, I didn't find props fitting to the outside ambience. I'm going to prepare custom overlays as a way to improve walls, but I'm not a modeler at all. From my beginning a month ago, I've paid attention to details in regular and good custom maps, but this specific setup doesn't allow for most additions : I don't want to cram my walls with eletric devices, tubes, vents... I must confess some of us have the feeling that sometimes mappers put what they find in the SDK for the sake of it. So I'll try to stick with nice custom posters/signs instead.

    @MangyCarface and Snipergen : I'll look for real palmtrees. Our players did'nt mind the prefabs since they reminded them of sonic palmtrees ;) But they are a shitty nonetheless, sure.

    @Paria : I'll redo all the archs, so be it :) I've looked the portal file several times, quite messy but all carving, pillars, etc are safely put in func_detail, no issue coming from it.

    Thanks for comments and help :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  8. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    tbh = to be honest
     
  9. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    common ones I've seen/use:

    tbh - to be honest
    tbf - to be fair
    imo - in my opinion
    imho - in my humble opinion (softer version of the above)
    afaik - as far as I know
    cba - can't be bothered
    atm - at the moment
    brb - be right back
    irl - in real life
    afk - away from keyboard
    btw - by the way
    fyi - for your information
    j/k - just kidding

    Then of course you've got things like:

    lol - laugh out loud
    rofl - rolling on the floor laughing
    pmsl - pissing myself laughing
    lmao - laughing my arse off
    omg -oh my god/gosh
    omfg - (same as the above with added profanity)
    wtf - what the fuck
    wth - what the hell
    stfu - shut the fuck up

    That should do you for anything you're likely to see on most forums or in the tf2maps.net steam chat
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    thanks,

    So, heres an exemple of things I'm likely to add to the map (but now I'm going to redo all my windows and get a playable version asap : gameplays stands > visuals in the long run, doesn't it ? ) :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2008
  11. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    I loled, haha funny poster
     
  12. trainRiderJ

    trainRiderJ L5: Dapper Member

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    I definitely agree about the gameplay. Also, why is everyone bashing the fact that he has no details when this is a WIP thread? By definition, anything posted under that label is NOT finished and should not be expected to be fully detailed, or even textured for that matter. I wonder what the reaction would have been if his map actually had the orange and grey dev textures.

    I'm of the opinion that it's better to get your gameplay locked down before you put a lot of effort into details, otherwise it's just that much more work you have to do to fix things when you discover that a certain hallway is too narrow or too long, or something else gameplay-related.

    I for one like the general visual theme you're going for, and that custom overlay shows to me that you're serious about making a nice looking map. I'm sure after a couple of iterations we'll start to see something pretty nice here.
     
  13. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    lol. That is the single best TF2 picture I have ever seen, hands down.
     
  14. Spike

    Spike L10: Glamorous Member

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    I agree with you, he's doing a great map, and come on! Is the first map he is doing! it's excellent for a first map.

    But adding some models that fits with the map will make it better. Like some wood boxes or fruit boxes. I think they would fit well
     
  15. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Thanks for support.
    I've already remade almost all carved elements, and added some props. Gameplays seems quite refined atm, I'll just add more respawn time for defending team and enlarge some ammopacks useful for attacking engies. The map may feel a bit empty, but I still have a whole round of things to add

    [​IMG]
    (subtitle : Casa the spy nest)
     
  16. FLOOR_MASTER

    FLOOR_MASTER L3: Member

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    Quick feedback from a playtest with 30 players:

    1) The round timers are unusually long. You can easily afford to shave off 7-10 minutes. The outcome of the round is decided much earlier, and the excess time is spent in frustrating deadlock.

    2) Point C is too difficult to capture. Its distance to RED spawn allows RED the ability to cheaply hide behind the team-filtered doors and pop shots into the capture area. The numerous enclaves beneath the balconies allow for too many heavily-concealed sentry areas. The main path to access C (from A) is too vulnerable to sniper fire.

    The map is very promising. This thread, however, is a monumental derail and it'd be nice if a mod could clean it up.
     
  17. Narkissus

    Narkissus L5: Dapper Member

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    What? This thread doesnt seem very derailed.
     
  18. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    FLOOR_MASTER, you took it from our server ? Which version, the cp_casablanca_B2 ?

    Well, to answer in short, I didn't balance it for more than 24 player nor did we test it un such conditions (we generally find 32 player servers to be a bit too much messy atm)

    So far, many games ended with attackers getting and sometimes sucessfully exploiting overtime periods. They are many ways of attacking, especially the last point and I have the feelling BLU should have some time to get it right and simply put : to do some teamwork.

    Point C is the main chore of this map, I did'nt witness some ugly tricks like hiding and shooting from the door, but now you're raising it, I'm going to divide this door into two going in the corridors leading to this exit. As the covered enclaves, they aren't very solid in themselves, and people told me how difficult the job is for engies. BLU have many, many long distance sightlines, provided they aren't blocked by snipers. Ground level entrances are not easy to cover by those same sniper, and the tower gives easy and protected acces to the balcony level. There, soldiers and demomen can dispatch any turret while using the pillars cover.

    In short, casablanca needs more teamwork from attacking teams that it looks like. But I'm going to fix the shoot and hide exploit for defending team, thanks.
     
  19. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    First public beta release : cp_casablanca_B3

    *hopes he did'nt forget anything...*

    Mostly for gameplay testing :)
     
  20. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Okay, downloaded and looked over.

    First I'd say get rid of all your hl2 textures, as in the little tunnel/tile floor area.

    Second, your overlays gave me some good vibes for your project. But you're going to need to find a way to link the "casablanca" feel to tf2 aesthetics. Why are the teams there? Well Morocco's a port. Work some spytech in around that theme?

    I think you're off to a solid start, but you need a little more focus if you want to make this "different" locale fit into the tf2 world. Of course if that's not your aim... well forget I said anything ;)

    Good luck mate