Wii Fit Trainer Weighs In!

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by Wii Fit Trainer, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. Wii Fit Trainer

    Wii Fit Trainer L1: Registered

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    Hey there mappers. I just started fooling around with hammer a few days ago and have been progressing a lot faster than I thought I would. I didn't even think I'd bother to go any further than creating a room honestly, but the basics aren't as hard as they may seem I suppose.
    I don't often go on forums, and there are so many different subsections I wasn't sure where to start, so I decided what better place than an introduction?
    So as I've said, I just started mapping a few days ago after thinking of what I haven't seen done for arena maps. I play a lot of Randomizer Arena, and the owner there recently doubled the available maps to play on. However, a lot of them lack water. So that's where I got my idea for a river separated foresty map.

    Now that I've got the intro out of the way, I'd like to ask where I should go to ask for help in executing design theories? I understand how to make most of the map, but I'm having trouble understanding how to go about the gimmick(s) of the map.


    Thanks for reading, and I look forward to becoming a member of this community.
     
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  2. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Gimmicks are usually done via entitiy logic. I'd start at the basics: Triggers, logic_relays and logic_timers.

    Welcome to the community, forums and possibly a future brawl.
     
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  3. L0RDR0B

    L0RDR0B L1: Registered

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    "TF2Maps.net compiles the battlefield!"

    Jokes aside, welcome! Things may look daunting at first, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of things here! :D
     
  4. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    I'd like to think that if TF2maps.net was a Smash Bros. character, our final smash would be the game crashing.

    Welcome to the Brawl!
     
  5. Wii Fit Trainer

    Wii Fit Trainer L1: Registered

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    Thanks Fr0Z3n! I figured they'd be entities. The last gimmick at least. I think the only trigger I've done was the door in the dev tutorial. I haven't actually made a spawn room/door yet, which I assume uses triggers, so I should probably get started on that.
    However the other two gimmicks have to do with the river and physics props (I think).
    I actually want the river to have a rapids look to it. Probably using small waterfalls to connect higher levels of water to lower ones. I also plan to have the water push the player towards the end of a cliff when entered if possible.
    The physics prop I'm also curious about would be logs. I want to create logs that float down the rapids (either a certain way, i.e. how a train drives into a map, or random based on its physics and the decline of the map) that a player can jump on then off to get across to the other side of the river without falling in the water.

    Would you be able to tell me if anything like that is possible? Or point me in the direction of the forums where I could further explain what I want to do and get help?

    edit: thanks to L0RDR0B and RubbishyUser for your welcomes and humor as well. haha
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  6. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    I'd highly recommend playing around with some of the stock gamemodes and ideas before you venture off into new territory. Get the basic logic stuff down and make some layouts that are fun to play on and then move on to pushing some limits.

    That said, the source engine is a pain in the butt to do water features with.

    Also, welcome! :)
     
  7. Wii Fit Trainer

    Wii Fit Trainer L1: Registered

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    Ah, Crash! Thanks for the advice, I thought the gimmicks I had planned might be pushing it, but I don't really have a due date for the map to be done so I planned to just learn things and then go back to fix other things as I went along with the map. I'll definitely consider something simpler though, maybe a sequel to 2fort, 3fort? Just kidding.

    When I was looking around trying to figure out how to even turn a brush into water I saw how much trouble people were having with water physics back in '09 and was hoping that would have changed by now.
     
  8. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Another thing to note is that a certain band of water height around crouching to standing up height is super weird and buggy and you want to avoid it as much as possible. That's why most water in Valve maps are either a foot high or canal shaped - so it doesn't have to go through that awkward phase. Honestly, if you wanted to make an arena map focused on water I'd make an interesting sewer system - with maybe a pocket of air only reachable by going underwater, containing health - rather than trying to mess with water in other capacities.

    Also, as I'm sure you've already done, I'd reccomend browsing the tutorials and picking up A Boojum Snark's resource pack. With that, you can get a lot more assistance on the technical stuff like doors and spawns and that means you can concentrate on your creative vision more.

    Oh, and physics props are also buggy. Basically, if it doesn't appear in a Valve map it probably hasn't been fixed. For example: you'll want to use "expensive" water because "cheap" water doesn't look very good. But, Expensive water can't be used in conjunction with cheap water or on differing levels if the two brushes might be visible at any point in the level (technically they can't occupy the same collection of visible visleafs from any point in the level.) This will render your waterfall idea pretty difficult to implement, I'm afraid. :(

    Here's the page on adding water if you're interested: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Adding_Water
     
  9. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    As an addendum to the part about ABS' pack, learn how to do the logic work on your own first before relying on the pack. If something breaks along the way, it's way better to know how everything works. The prefabs are just to save time once you know how to do it.
     
  10. Wii Fit Trainer

    Wii Fit Trainer L1: Registered

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    You lost me at resource pack. heh
    I don't understand the buggy water height too much either. I've seen water in a canal like you said in well going under a base, but it's also rectangular under those bridges. I've also seen water as shallow as the player's feet in waste.
    Yeah, I figured the logs might cause trouble. Especially since tf2 doesn't seem to have too many physical props. That's why I had the idea of using them in the same way a train rolls in like in well. That wouldn't work either?
    I heard about the cheap x expensive water conflict, but I didn't get it fully. I thought about using cheap water most of the time since rapids are mostly white because of all the clashing against rocks and such though.
    I hope I'm explaining what I want to do understandably, and I wish I had more experience so I could communicate better (like I have no idea what a visleaf is. haha), but I guess this whole idea really is too complex for someone that just started mapping. I'll try to make a normal map for now, but I definitely want to bring this map into fruition at some point. Hopefully when the time comes to do that I'll be able to communicate with you guys better.
    Thanks for the warm welcome into the community everyone, and if I have trouble even with a basic map I'll be sure to check out the tutorials section.