Which would you rather see?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by YM, Jan 18, 2011.

?

Which would you most like to see?

  1. Left completely alone, as is, never touched again

    7 vote(s)
    9.7%
  2. Reworked key bits, passed to Valve to update

    38 vote(s)
    52.8%
  3. Complete rebuild, layout intact, a facelift essentially

    4 vote(s)
    5.6%
  4. Complete rebuild, same visual style, layout reworked, removing chokes and wrapping the map up

    23 vote(s)
    31.9%
  1. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,099
    Positive Ratings:
    5,742
    "Work on something new" isn't an option because I'm not asking "what shall I do next", I'm asking "which would you rather see happen, in your ideal imagining of the future."

    Choose and comment accordingly.

    EDIT2: Sorry for any confusion, this is about hoodoo.


    EDIT: Poll options have to be painfully small, so I'll clarify options 3 and 4, Neither would be sent to valve to update pl_hoodoo_final, they'd end up as new map, not pl_hoodoo2 but that would probably be a working title (hoodootoo).
    For 4 I'd heavily modify the layout to remove all the un-fun, bland and chokey parts as well as making it fit neatly into a spiral.
    Both options 1 and 2 would see a proper ending explosion. Perhaps even a new cart theme.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  2. drp

    aa drp

    Messages:
    2,251
    Positive Ratings:
    2,551
    wat
     
  3. Okrag

    aa Okrag Wall Staples

    Messages:
    1,029
    Positive Ratings:
    640
    I don't want it completely rebuilt but I feel that changing key parts will make it feel disjointed. Sure some parts are worse than others but if you're going to update you might as well update all of it, payload maps have come a long way since then.
     
  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,562
    I picked 2, but i'm not really sure what the purpose of this thread is, you havn't exactly asked for feedback per se. Yet i'm pulled to giving suggestions by explaining my vote.

    Personally i feel the outside areas just need more space, specifically, width. Also your flanks always end in a tiny choke points, often a closed doorway at the end of a corridor. It would be nice to see some exits just open up on a wide ledge. Hoodoo just suffers from dustbowl syndrome; everything's so linear. The weapon updates havn't exactly helped your map either. Plus, being a 3 stage A/D map (dustbowl/goldrush) adding width probably isn't entirely possible due to certain spacial restrictions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  5. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

    Messages:
    567
    Positive Ratings:
    437
    I voted one, but would add a cautious "maybe 2". Hoodoo’s not without problems, but it’s far from terrible as it is. I just feel you’re better off learning from its problems and applying that in your new maps rather than reworking your older maps.

    Just look at the rubbish George Lucas came up with when he went and reworked his older films ;)
     
  6. Tyker

    Tyker L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    232
    Positive Ratings:
    141
    For a portfolio piece it will probably be better if it was reworked, but I think the community's reaction would be that the map sucks because it is changed. Good or bad doesn't matter to them at that point, it's just that it is changed. I think it won't have a positive effect on how most people think about the map, but if that doesn't matter and you just want it to play better then go for it!
     
  7. zpqrei

    aa zpqrei Theme Changer Extraordinaire

    Messages:
    1,066
    Positive Ratings:
    1,122
  8. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

    Messages:
    698
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    Leave it and finish stark.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,032
    Positive Ratings:
    3,979
    I voted for 4, but then realized I should have voted for 2. If you're going to make a new map entirely, there's no reason to tie it to Hoodoo, no matter what ideas or inspirations you retain from it. However, pl_voodoo using the swamp theme is a good idea that you can take from me for free.

    Hoodoo has issues but also many great parts. I often feel like I am one the few people who enjoy playing on it, but even I get sick and tired of certain parts sometimes.

    And for the record I think this is wrong, or at the very least I disagree with the idea. Sometimes maps have an iterative process. Sometimes it's just a little thing that makes someone go from hating a map to loving it: I've got a friend who hated Gorge before the forward spawn. The change made to Hoodoo over 2-1 was positive and I know for a fact it had a positive outcome among many of the people I play with regularly. In fact, it was added back into rotation due to that change.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

    Messages:
    1,568
    Positive Ratings:
    2,185
    Either tweak it and make small improvements like Valve is doing with cp_well & cp_granary in beta as part of regular maintenance (my vote), or leave it be and move on.

    This, so much this.

    Rewriting completely shouldn't even be an option. There's no reason to tie your talent and time to all the baggage pl_hoodoo has.

    And fwiw, I happen to like pl_hoodoo. I don't understand the community hate for it; I think it plays pretty well for the most part.

    Kep
     
  11. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

    Messages:
    3,076
    Positive Ratings:
    1,314
    It really took me a while to realize we were talking about Hoodoo
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  12. Nacimota

    Nacimota L1: Registered

    Messages:
    29
    Positive Ratings:
    18
    I'd like to see some new stuff but if you were to work on Hoodoo I think it has some balance issues that should be addressed.
     
  13. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

    Messages:
    2,289
    Positive Ratings:
    1,348
    Either leave it alone, or do the last option.

    I'd love to see where you can take this map from here, and a few small changes won't be enough. It will still be spammy and chokey in large parts of the map if you just resort to adding a new door here and putting some cover there. That's just wasted effort.
     
  14. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

    Messages:
    3,076
    Positive Ratings:
    1,314
    Just do what Icarus did and make a few test versions and have us play them. I'm really hoping to see improvement around 1-2 and 2-2, as those seem like the biggest speed bumps in the map.
     
  15. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

    Messages:
    948
    Positive Ratings:
    551
    I actuallly uh, meant to vote 3. Misclicked on two and voted that.

    If you're going to update key parts, there are some other things that also need work thematically. The dirty bomb approach, while inventive initially, ends up being pale in comparison to all the other Massive Explosion maps for an ending. There also could be some more utilization of newer textures and props to make the map feel more crisp. Plus, I'd love to see you go through your old map and make it look even better :)

    But I don't say you should do a whole new layout. It wouldn't be hoodoo if it wasn't insanely spammy in some areas and easy to play demo on!
     
  16. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,099
    Positive Ratings:
    5,742
    Yeah sorry I got hit by the 100 character limit on poll options, the word hoodoo was snipped from the last two options, then I didn't realise I hadn't said it anywhere else but my edit, would have been very clear otherwise.

    @grazr width is one thing that can be added easily, my previous edit included something like 384 or 512 units more width at 2-2, Because I didn't see a reason to wrap my map up into a tight spiral like dustbowl I just made it wiggle around as I saw fit, in the end it was pretty linear (look at a heatmap) so adding width would be a really easy fix.

    @Honeymustard Stark is pretty much done, I'm certainly not going to work on it any more. Admittedly the koth version isn't quite done and still has a load of visual issues but both versions are fully detailed and have been tested lots. Though if there are specific things you have to suggest, PM me.
     
  17. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

    Messages:
    698
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    I don't know about Stark, I've only played it a few times but it was always enjoyable, it just doesn't seem to get played as much as your other maps (or other custom 5cp maps). Shame really.
     
  18. Mr. P. Kiwi

    Mr. P. Kiwi L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    244
    Positive Ratings:
    95
    I don't see why you need to rebuild Hoodoo. If you're going to completely rebuild it and only keep the visual style you can just call the "new" map something else. Make a new map.
     
  19. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

    Messages:
    7,099
    Positive Ratings:
    5,742
    Like a reimagining, There are many different batman films by many different directors, but they're all still batman.
    The final option wasn't meant to be only the visual style is the same, but the essence of the layout is the same but majorly revised to be more fun. You'd still be able to tell it once was hoodoo.
     
  20. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,106
    Positive Ratings:
    6,006
    That sounds fairly similar to 2 then. But i imagine that really, hoodoo doesnt need so much.