What are your opinions on the new weapons

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by martijntje, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. martijntje

    martijntje L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I am surprised no such thread yet exist. (note I joined after the spy/sniper update and never got the weapon high before)

    I think valve did a pretty fine job. So here is my opinion. I tried playing with all weapons the last few days.

    Soldier
    direct hit
    I like it, it allows you to do more damage, but requires you to be more skillfull.
    Not overpowerd because most players will actually do less damage using it. I do hate the sound it makes, it just feels not right
    buff banner
    I dislike it. The shotgun is a damn fine weapon and to give it up you need a decent weapon in return. The buff banner makes me think of bonk: only useful in rare cases.
    equalizer
    Feels overpowered to me, you get both more damage and more speed when you are on low health, wich seems wrong to me. If it was just either one I would be happy. The moment I pull out my melee is usually also the moment when I am low on health. It feels like something the heavy could use more.

    gunboats
    Like the buff banner, it replaces the shotgun wich is the main problem. The soldier takes very little self-damage, even a quadruple rocketjump wont kill you. This is however the only weapon I do not posses. I think this weapon would be better for the demoman as the demoman takes way more self-damage than the soldier.


    Demoman
    eyelander
    I like it. It really encoureges you to melee somebody to death, because if you dont, you will walk around with less health. I feel it is not overpowered because it actually is pretty difficult to melee someone to death. I really like the glowing eye :D
    Charging targe
    I like it as well. It changes the playstyle of the demoman quite a bit. During this post-update mayhem this is a very fun weapon. This weapon makes you a great counter against soldiers, demoman and pyros. I do find landig a crit to be very diffucult and only use the charge for speed bursts. The targe+grenade launcher is a great close range combination as you takes far fewer selfdamage
    Scottish resistance
    A good demoman will set of his stickies when he knows it will kill someone, when do you know it will kill someone: when you see them near your stickies. I was at first quite sceptical about this, but I came to like it. The idea of the SR is not to defend multiple entrances, but instead a big connected field. The SR is more useful than the original on defense. The SR allows you to withstand multiple waves of enemies where the orignal Sticky laucher would cost you more time to set up new traps.
     
  2. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    ...k

    Soldier
    Now...i hate the soldier so this is from the perspective of playing against them
    direct hit
    I love this weapon, my single greatest complaint with rockets were how they absolutely ruin close range combat, this I think is perfect.

    buff banner
    Ive seen this be useful...once, for spawn camping
    equalizer
    The thing that bugs me most about this weapon is that it breaks melee fights. Its really irritating to run up to a soldier, land 3 hits without him laying a scratch on you, then he gets the one hit that is an instant kill.

    gunboats
    No comment

    Demoman
    eyelander
    By itself a perfectly fine trade off, less health off the start for a chance at more health and speed later on.
    Charging targe
    I absolutely love this weapon but I view it as, use it as much as you damn well can until its nerfed. I could stand to see the explosives resistance reduced a bit, with the effectiveness off the charge increased a bit. Basically what i want is, if someone completely destroys your charge, namely by knocking you in the air, the bar should not be reduced to nothing, but rather start charging again from when it was when you were knocked into the air.
    That said, i hate rockets, and this shield absolutely tears through them.

    Scottish resistance
    Have yet to use it
     
  3. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

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    equalizer needs a nerf since he's basically a spy that can facestab. why did valve say themselves it's an upgrade from the soldier if that ruins the whole purpose of unlocks
     
  4. Flame

    aa Flame

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    the banner needs a lower output time.
    maybe around the range of 7-8 seconds so its not longer than an uber.

    the equalizers pretty sweet and isnt really gamebreaking since like the soldier needs to be really low to kill someone.

    the direct hit needs to ditch the mini-crits since +80% speed and +25% damage is enough of a buff to counter the -70% damage.

    the sword and shield are pretty balanced, and the SR needs some sort of buff like maybe faster fire rate since it takes forever to put up 14 stickies.
     
  5. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    Only got the Direct Hit right now and it's a bit...useless. You hit a wall less than a centremeter away from an enemy and you do no damage :(

    Equalizer is a bloody pain when a medic. About an hour ago I had an uber ready, deployed it and then the soldier ran off with the equalizer, wasted uber :(

    Mellee weapons have barely killed me so far, but I have seen a lot of deaths with them. They both seem direct upgrades to me. Eyelander either reaches one hell of a distance or the EU server is really lagging for me.

    Equalizer, I haven't noticed a difference in speed but I'm still waiting to get mine.

    Gun Boats...how do yo uget them? People say random drops, people say milestone 3 etc. But I think they would be better on demoman although probably overpowered. You would be able to sticky jump across whole maps, maybe even all the stickies from the SR? :p
     
  6. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

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    Valve has stated they'd buff the regular Shovel. Give them some time. They'll go fix all the weapons after the Engi update in February.

    Also, Gunboats are very nice. They take away your secondary firearm, or they take away your chance to be helpful and give your teammates minicrits. But they make it so Rocket Jumping is nothing. Demo should have gotten it as well in replacement for their grenade launcher, too, though. Yeah, sure, they would have one more weapon than other classes - but it's something they deserve, it helps them be more strategic with jumps while being less health-costly, but also take away a viable piece of equipment.

    Targe needs nerfing.

    Eyelander seems like it's okay, but the really long melee range is just bull. Hell, they gave a wooden buckler +50% fire damage resistance and +65% explosive damage resistance. So why not have a short sword chop off people's heads? It would at least make sense to have a small shield do so much and a small sword do so much.

    Oh, and Sandman just needs to be deleted and a new unlock needs to be created.
     
  7. KaiserFate

    KaiserFate L69: Deviant Member

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    I've only been playing Soldier but here is my opinion.

    The DH discourages spamming, which is a good thing, but it also kind of negates the old "fire at the feet then in the air" trick. You have to be a lot more precise, but truth be told, this is more in line with how I play.

    People don't seem to like the buff banner but I've seen it used properly and it's basically a mass kritzkrieg if you use it at the right time. Keep in mind you only need one soldier to have one, and as long as you stick close your enemies might as well be doused in Jarate - well-timed buff banners can mean a push through a hard defense.

    I don't have the gunboats but I want them, I do a lot of rocket-jumping and find the health-sacrifice to be a pain in the heat of battle. Then again, you would have no buff banner or shotgun, meaning you'd have to really focus on rockets and melee, which is more restricting.

    The Equalizer is awesome. I see no problem with the balance when the amount of health you have to be on in order to kill someone instantly is enough to get you killed by accident from wayward fire. I use the Eq in conjunction with the rocket launcher to dash to the front line which is a huge relief if your teleporters are broken.
     
  8. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    I love the buff banner.

    Hint: Regular Rocket Launcher charges your rage faster., and is more effective But the shotgun is invaluable to the DH.

    I find that common loadout combos are:
    -Normal RL + Buff Banner
    -Direct Hit + Shotgun
     
  9. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    This.
     
  10. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Direct Hit: I agree the sound could be better and the rockets could look a little different, even if it's just part of their smoke trail.

    Functionally, it seems to fit a useful niche. I find myself running out of ammo a lot more than when using the normal launcher.

    It is difficult for a Pyro to reflect, and deters snipers, which may be good or bad depending on your opinions of how classes currently stack up.

    Buff Banner: Incredibly useful with a team that sticks together and understands the benefits (esp. no-falloff) of mini-crits. Use the normal rocket launcher for building your "Rage" meter.

    Equalizer: Mainly handy for escaping back to health, IMO. Since I rarely use the shovel anyway except in desperation, I find it clearly superior. Sure, it's nice to be almost like a Spy, sneakily whacking people with it... but smart enemies will increasingly realize they just have to wing you for you to keel over and die.

    Gunboats: Dunno yet.

    __________
    Eyelander: When you get 4+ heads with this thing, it is incredibly fun to run around as the second-fastest class in the game with the second-most-health. Just hope the enemy doesn't crit you with their melee weapon, because yours normally can't.

    The targe: Perhaps too effective versus Pyro flame, the Targe allows you to shrug off a lot of flame and explosion damage, with the side-effect of making your grenade-launcher a viable close-range weapon. The charge feature lets you escape or close the distance to an enemy. No bullet resistance, so smart enemies will use shotguns.

    Targe + Eyelander combo: So damn fun. Perhaps even overpowered. When you get a few heads, almost no enemy can easily outrun you, and a proper charge means you get a crit-strike against them. You cannot jump while charging, and changing direction is almost impossible. Your first attack will end the charge, and the length of time you have been charging relates to whether a successful swing-and-hit will be normal, a minicrit, or a crit.

    Scottish Resistance: It does what it says on the tin. Several times guarding a point or area, I've watched some enemy charge ahead after one zone was detonated, only to meet a bloody end as I detonated the next patch. Stickies can be detonated across the map as long as you aim at the right spot. Or hold down M2 and drag over the right spot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  11. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    Umm...ive been using nothing but the eyelander targe combo since i got it, about 10 hours, and ive seen no indication that it actually has more range...or if it does id say its pretty much neligible
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  12. Flame

    aa Flame

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    ok, dont play demoman and charge anymore and play scout or sniper

    make the same claim in a week and tell me its not complete nonsense.
     
  13. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    ahem...thats what i did before the update <_<
    as sniper I get one kukri kill to every rifle kill, and i only play scout to run around and kill people with the (metal) bat
    and before getting the eyelander i used the bottle with the targe, it is equally effective
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  14. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    Gunboats are bugged (from what I hear)

    They reduce damage on vertical jumps, but not when you angle for distance

    DH is a nearly perfect sidegrade

    Equalizer is too fun to nerf, and only an issue if you can't shoot the soldier

    Buff Banner is a lot better than I expected. Ill get a lot of use out of it

    Chargin tard and sword are fun, but way op. Typical players just can't deal with threats that you can't spam through a tiny doorway

    No chance to play witht the SR yet, sounds fun though
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    direct hit
    This is a decent weapon. Despite its increased damage and mini crits (which work really well in water) i would not say it's OP. That said, i need to get used to the new rocket speed, as i still find the slower rockets easier to juggle with.

    buff banner
    This can be useless and very useful. I've used it a couple times to defend a CP more effectively than the team has managed in the past and push forwards for a win in the onslaught. But for the most part, the shotgun is still the weapon of choice because otherwise the soldier is not so effective at getting those kills he otherwise gets.

    Equalizer

    gunboats
    No comment

    eyelander
    Right now i'm feeling this weapon is OP. Maybe it's just because i've only played Gold Rush and 2fort, which see tight spaces a lot. But right now Eye+targe=win.
    Charging targe
    This is great for those situations where a soldier ends up juggling you in a corridor and you can't escape. It's a great unlock but i've seen demoman survive 8 stickies in a single trap and that's just wrong.

    Scottish resistance
    I'm mainly an offencive demo so the regular sticky launcher's burst capability is something i don't want to lose. It's a good camping weapon, but it's a boring tactic that wastes a player slot, and is more annoying than an sentry nest. I don't really know whether, for these reasons, this is a good or bad unlock. I guess it depends on your style. But i havn't really seen it applied that effectively thus far.
     
  16. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    After playing with the Direct Hit for a while, I think it's a decent alternative, but it might need a little tweaking. I don't like how it's faster AND does tons of damage. While it's difficult to use, it's not difficult to spam...

    I have little to say about the Buff Banner because I don't have it, but it seems like a perfectly balanced weapon that encourages teamwork, which of course is awesome.

    I like how the Equalizer currently works, it would be ruined if either the speed increase or the damage buff were to be removed. What good does a really powerful Soldier do if he moves slower than practically everyone? All right, maybe it has one downside, you can't be healed, but this is just to prevent griefing/accidental griefing. It really needs some significant disadvantage to the shovel.

    The Chargin' Targe is not such a good weapon, because it's designed to work in combination with another that you get later. The basic function is okay, though, but I don't care much for how this removes half of the "Demo" in Demoman. A cliché argument, sure, but it really annoys me to see Demomen literally charging into the enemy.

    Now, my favorite part. The Eyelander. It is such utter bullcrap. While the idea is fine, the result of rewarding you with more speed and health for each kill forces Demomen to use this weapon a lot in every life, leading to tons of spam. I'm sick and tired of seeing a Demoman with a glowing eye coming at me, flailing his sword all over the place. What's that, pull out my shotgun and kill him before he gets here? Too bad he's got over 200 health and runs at least as fast as a Scout! Right, I'm fine with the health increase, since he starts with less health. But in this case, the speed increase is beyond stupid. It encourages people to use the Eyelander as a primary weapon. I though I'd never be so angry at people spamming a melee weapon...

    And for the anticlimatic end, I've nothing to say about the Scottish Resistance, I've barely seen anyone using it.
     
  17. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Now that you mention it, that has annoyed me about the charge. You can charge with the intel, and the fact that the demo can grenade jump makes him the new ultimate flag runner over the scout, whom cannot use his bonk with the intel, AND has a de-buff slow down after using it, whilst the demo gets a crit boost in comparison. Bonk isn't all that "powerful" as an item, it allows you to get past 1 sentry if the push back doesn't catch you, but the engi can just chase you down and plug 2 buckshot rounds into your arse, or someone can just block an entrance with their body and you die.

    Some serious balancing needs to be done there.
     
  18. General_Norris

    General_Norris L2: Junior Member

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    Direct Hit
    A good weapon but not overpowered. However I think the rockets move too fast.

    Buff Banner
    It is not as straightfoward as Jarate and requires more carefulness but gives you a bigger reward. It gives the Soldier some teamwork and that's nice. I like it for now.

    Boots
    Interesting tradeoff. Seems like some players will love it.

    Equalizer
    Fun, not overpowered. However it's strictly better than the shovel.


    Eyelander
    Really fun!

    Targe
    It's fine. It may seem like Pyros are screwed but probably once they get the hang out of it it's fine. Really fun.

    Scottish resistance
    Looks like a very intersting weapon. Some Demomen will love this even if they are combat-oriented because you can overcome it's limitations with skill.
     
  19. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I'm finding the SR really good PL defence weapon. Although i'm also finding its damage allocation buggy, or players simply had random health when ever i encountered them. Sometimes people would survive 5 stickies, but other times seemingly die from 1.
     
  20. Titanium

    Titanium L1: Registered

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    I don't like the new mele weapons because demoknight is not an alternative demeoman play style it is a new classe who share a weapons with the demoman( the grenade launcher).

    Plus there is now a lot of mele weapons that can one hit kill you (knife KGB equaliser ang sword) and I find it more irrritating that pyro noob.

    Howewer I did not play them so maybe I will change my mind.