Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by FaTony, Dec 15, 2009.
damn, you keep on making new thread, when I was done writing you already locked and removed the other threads (I tried posing 2 times in 2 threads by you)
Here is what I came up with. I tried to make it so you can easily determen wheter a map is a gimmick map or not
gimmick maps are:
1.Maps not ment to be played
Pretty much idle maps
2.Maps designed for achievement grinding
3.Maps not having a win condition
training maps, probably some other too
4.Maps that have an unorthodox gamemode
Maps that use a gamemode not based on an official one.
To make all a bit more clear, here I apply these rules to some maps
gimmick map, falls into 1
for those of you that don't know this, it is a map for grinding kills for the war update. I falls into 2 as it is kind of an achievement grind. (otherwise it would still fall into 3
It has a custom gamemode, but it is essentially a variation on a/d cp, so it is not a gimmick map
It is also a variation on cp, so it is not a gimmick map
Also just a variation of cp
damm, it actially is a varation of ctf, but I do consider it a gimmick map, this is where my rules fail
"sports" map, so it is a gimmick map
training map, so still a gimmick map
now to discuss your options
orange map, no, not a gimmick map, just a badly detailed (and often unbalanced ) map
Idle, yes, a gimmick map, see rule 1.
Full of hl2 textures, not a gimmick map, the mapper just doesn't get the tf2 style.
unbalanced. Not at all a gimmick map, they just have a bad mapper, I think it is completely unrelated.
training, Yes, see 3.
None of these things does a gimmick map make.
A gimmick map is one that throws conventional TF2 gameplay out the window for something different and usually incredibly fun.
None of the above.
Orange, HL2tex and unbalanced just makes a map bad, it has nothing to do with the gimmick factor.
Training maps can't even be considered for yes or no, because they are meant for a specific purpose while playing alone.
Idle maps could be a gimmick, but they again just fall into area of being maps with a particular purpose.
A gimmick is "a trick or device used to attract business or attention" (Merriam-Webster).
Lil' Chew Chew in Frontier is a gimmick. It doesn't automatically make the map bad but the map could exist fine without it too.
The mario kart map is a gimmick. It's just full of all kinds of dumb stuff to attract people into playing it even though it has no point or purpose.
I see this entire gimmick map discussion is pointless and not really the matter at hand. The kinds of maps that a lot of our users criticize and hate have nothing to do with gimmick, but rather just horrible quality. We see mapping as an artistic hobby and strive for the best we can create.
People rage over 100% non-gimmick maps that are completely within the defined game mode normals if the map is done poorly. That's the whole issue here. Quality.
In TF2 mapping terms, a map gimmick means a function added to try and stray away from the normally excepted conventions.
Now, there is a difference between a map gimmick and a "gimmick map". Gimmick maps usually contain an original concept that doesn't work well in terms of gameplay. One obvious example is 256fort, A map with an unusually small playing area that devolves into a spam fest.
Maps that contain a gimmick, but are not considered "gimmicky" have a successful new mechanic. Frontier, for example. has a payload with a platform that attackers are intended to stand on to advance the train. This is neither game breaking nor does it come across as "silly", and it works pretty well as the map's defining feature.
I think that's pretty much the end of that discussion then. What a load of effert over nothing, lol.
It's a bit like pornography. "Know it when you see it".
Fosters abnormal gameplay (sniper wars, achievement grinding, demo-vs-soldier only maps, 'racing' maps, surf maps)
Troll maps intended to raise people's ire.
Deliberately bizarre (upside-down 2fort, sneaky stuff like ohho)
You could also consider minor aesthetic changes of stock maps a "gimmick", in that the appearance is the gimmick-in-question.
Stock maps with a minor gameplay change like a new staircase... Depending on how much is done it may be lazy or bad, but it's not a gimmick.
Actually, pyro and engi are almost completely useless. Scout is barely useful for capturing the flag, as is every class except soldier and demo (or so I'm told), although it is technically possible to score as scout, if you have a FaN.
Gimmick maps are to me: not following the basic guidelines for TF2 in looks and gameplay.
- This makes idle and achievement maps fall under gimmick because of the gameplay.
- Training is a gimmick map because of the gameplay.
- Orange is gimmick to me because it doesnt keep to the looks, same for HL2 looking maps (using some hl2 textures does not fall in this)
- Any map with a twisted gamemode is not a gimmick map.
- However.. maps limited to specific classes are gimmick maps. Simply because it changes the gameplay so you cant use each class to beat it. Bestinclass does this by making each area only completable by a few classes. Steel does that with CP E but then again, after capping C that cp can be reached by all classes. Thats a gimmick in the map but doesnt make the map a gimmick map
- Deathmatch maps are not gimmick. Deathmatch is a classic gamemode for any game. It doesnt realy have a target though but that doesnt make it gimmick to me, there is an objective and thats simply to kill. Its a bit like a twisted gamemode for arena, there is no cp and there are respawns. You however cant win since there isnt a good system for counting kills. If it was possible to count the kills and show them on the screen without a workarround and set a kill limit the gamemode would be 100% normal.
- TC without the basic CP system, Steel CP, Reversed CTF (includes A/D), Balloon race are not gimmick maps, they are twisted gamemodes even though some have quite extreme restrictions making specific classes harder to use.
- Maps that have some unique part that does give some change to the gameplay but actualy is still a normal gamemode isnt a gimmick map. Frontier isnt a gimmick map, the cart is a gimmick in it though.
In short, a gimmick map is somewhat any map that isnt suitable as a valve map. Unbalance doesnt fall into this as thats actualy situational. Otherwise goldrush and hoodoo come to mind quite fast to me. Those map work fine in 5vs5 normal respawn but dont fit well for 32 IR. Looks do fall into this. Would valve ever add mario kart to their list?
Training, idle, and achievement maps I wouldn't call gimmick maps because they have a completely different purpose in mind.
Textures and visual themes don't make a map a gimmick map, they just make it gimmick-looking. A map doesn't have to look like TF2 to be a TF2 map.
As most people here are saying, it's different gameplay that makes a map a gimmick. Something like team trial or bestinclass I would consider gimmicks.
Something like pacman though I would not consider to be a gimmick because it's normal gameplay with some different visual styles and unique hazards.
ok, a css example. if you see the map blahhh. would you say its gimmick? It does follow the basic gameplay lines with some small twist. But its textures make it realy like a gimmick map.
TF2 actualy has some strict guideline in the looks of the map. Ofcourse, it doesnt allway have to be perfectly tf2 like. A map like pacman with a normal gameplay but pacman textures doesnt have to be gimmick. As long as the pacman textures are based on the tf2 style. This means a bit of artistic textures. A realistic CSS/DOD looking wall in tf2 doesnt fit. even if the whole map is like that. simply because the player models dont fit with such walls.
A general look that fits with the rest of the game is the only requirement to me that makes the diffirence between a gimmick map and a normal map if you base it on the looks.
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