Water Water Everywhere

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Stormcaller3801, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    I've got an idea. This is a dangerous thing. But to know how dangerous it is, I need help from people who know what the heck they're doing with regards to maps.

    My initial idea for Drainfield is being revised in light of the fact that I got my sizes very wrong and I need to start over anyways. So what I'm looking at now is something that's more schticky and possibly reduces the overall utility of Snipers and Pyros on the map. That's a question to be dealt with later- along with the issue of whether or not that's really bad.

    My idea is pretty simple: I'm going to take all those trenches masquerading as drainage ditches, and make them drainage ditches. Meaning, I'm going to fill them with water. Not much- just, say, 32 HU or so deep. Not enough to put out fires. However, and this is a rather significant however, I'm going to move the center control point as well.

    Straight down.

    [​IMG]

    Yup, central point will be submerged under about... lessee... 168 HU of water.

    Which means that I'm talking about a huge chunk of corridors and rooms that will require water. Depending on if a Sniper's in one of the towers, this will likely require a decent amount of rendering, although I'm hoping that given ranges I can offset that with some cheap water and maybe some fog. Rain too, which isn't going to help.

    How stupid of an idea is this, from a framerate standpoint? I can deal with a long compile time, but I'd really like to do this without making it slow or crash computers. I'm intending to keep entities either above or entirely below water wherever possible to reduce the load somewhat, and will try to optimize it as well as I can with my limited ability and understanding.
     
  2. Jamini

    Jamini L4: Comfortable Member

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    A lot of computers slow down significantly when in the transition between water and air, and I know a few people have issues when swimming with framerates.

    However, I've never heard of anyone complaining about looking down at water with people in it. After all, the center of 2fort is a lake!

    Still, I really must say I don't think it's a good idea. The water around a CP makes pyros almost totally pointless in that area. :(
     
  3. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    Pyros won't be able to burn people on the point, but they will have the run of the place around it due to lots of passages that will be perfect for burning.
     
  4. SiniStarR

    SiniStarR L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    out of curiousity what program did you use to make that picture?!
     
  5. Smetzle

    Smetzle L3: Member

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    I think it was Google Sketchup.
     
  6. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    But you don't want one class of player unable to guard the point. Pyros couldn't do much so they might be able to defend up top but people will just run past , catch on fire, jump in the water.

    Pyros won't want to try and cap the point as it kills their main weapon.

    Snipers will also have a hard time defending the point.

    Eveyrone will move slower in the water, etc...
     
  7. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    Pyros will be able to do very well in a large area around the center point. The central room is 600x600x400, give or take. It, along with the immediate corridors leading to it, are the only places on the map that will have water deep enough to extinguish fires. In order to reach those corridors you have to make your way through a series of trenches that take up the vast majority of the center of the map. These trenches will be very comfortable hunting grounds for a Pyro.

    Further, if someone really wants to try and push past a Pyro to jump in the water, there's a couple options. One is the Backburner. It shouldn't be tremendously difficult to catch someone in the back as they run past you, and then keep the fire on them for the short time it takes the critical hits to put them down. Another is to follow them and switch to melee or a shotgun. The third is to employ teamwork with an Engineer: you light 'em up, and then they go running head-first into his Sentry Gun.

    And yes, I use SketchUp for my drafting.
     
  8. Vigilante212

    Vigilante212 L7: Fancy Member

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    The thing about the flamethrower it can still hurt people that are underwater as long as your floating above the water while using it :)
     
  9. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Forcing people to fight in water is a bad idea in my opinion. I avoid fighting in the water in 2fort just because my framerate drops horribly, so 90% of the time I end up dying. A bit of water at the bottom of the hallway is fine (like the sewer tunnels in 2fort are fine for me), but fighting while swimming is just bad.
     
  10. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    Underwater you have some shaders in use all the time, that often is the problem as shaders are quite expensive on older pcs.
    I think thats actualy a good thing. Many pyros just attack headlessly and it will make them learn to counter such problem. And just like with snipers on your team people sometimes have to learn to use other classes. And if its only 1 point and there are like 5 in the map its realy not a big problem.

    Still, underwater battles are alot diffirent as some classes are much stronger underwater then they normaly are (engineers, any sentry knockback is much greater then usualy - similar as the get knocked into the air effect). There needs to be alot of playtesting to ensure the CP can be reached well if a team turtles it by having some decent counter options. The CP definitely should be possible to be attacked from above.

    Btw, pyros are able to hit people underwater with their flames, they however cannot use the flames when underwater themselve. And also, as everyone has a shotgun as pyro they can at least attack underwater (and if they pick the flaregun they chose that themselve).
     
  11. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    The two direct entrances are 256 wide and 200 high, while the side entrances are 128 wide and 200 high. The roof's been raised relative to the picture; it's roughly as high up as the top of the culverts to either side of it. In essence, you can fire a rocket in one door and out the opposite without a problem- I've tested this more times than was really necessary.

    If you put a Sentry in the center, it's pretty much toast between Soldiers and Demomen. Further, if you put them in corners it's just a matter of circling around to the right doorway to get a good angle on them. I don't think a direct drop down onto the point is strictly necessary in this situation. Although that could be interesting. I'd have to work it into my design ideas and see if I could make it fit.