CP washout

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Korushi, Dec 23, 2010.

  1. Korushi

    Korushi L1: Registered

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    5cp map I've been working on for the last little bit.
    This map is still in it's alpha stages. With that in mind, please keep all criticism strictly about the layout, as visual details will be added and improved as the map matures.

    There are two boat props. They're both from Hl2, but they were the perfect size, and came in red and blue. For now, consider them placeholders. If anyone wants to try remodel/retexture them, feel free to take a stab at it
    :>
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  2. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    If the first screenshot is middle, that's a horrible idea. Middle cp on low ground just doesn't work and you took it to the extreme.
     
  3. Korushi

    Korushi L1: Registered

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    Trying to get players to fight around the point as appose to directly on it.
    Anywho, captime on the middle point is a tad faster then normal, and I could easily raise the ground level so it's less of an extreme.

    Thanks for the feedback.
     
  4. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Yea, low middle isn't the best.

    It also looks somewhat larger than it needs to be, but I can't be certain through screenshots...

    I'll see if my computer likes me today and lets me test others maps...


    Your brushwork looks very nice though, have you tried looking through the models & textures forums? Maybe you'll be able to find yourself 2 non-HL2 boats.
     
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  5. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    I don't know why, but I really like the look of this. :O Some things don't look very "TF2"-ish, like that tower by the second CP (looks cool by itself though), but this is still an early stage, I'm sure the non-TF2-ey things will look better as time goes on. :)

    A few critiques from the screens:

    Your stairs are all too steep. A 1:1 slope is awkward to fight on and looks rather ugly from a distance. Try making all your stairs with slope ratio 2:3 (e.g. 8 high, 12 deep) or even 1:2 (e.g. 8 high, 16 deep) to get a better look and smoother function.

    As has been said, putting a point in a deep pit will lead to trouble. Doesn't matter which point it is really, having it in a valley surrounded by high ground on all sides is difficult/unpleasant to play in. I'd suggest moving the entire lowest tier in that room in the first screenshot up to where the middle level is (bottom of the higher staircases). That puts the point close enough to the main ground level to work while still giving mild height variation. ;) Maybe even raise it a bit further than that, for less of a height advantage for those off the point.

    I'll have to give this a run-around in TF2. Submit it to Gameday sometime for a test! :)
     
  6. Korushi

    Korushi L1: Registered

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    I've had some trouble with sizing before, so I wouldn't be surprised if I have to adjust some areas. I'll give the models forum a good look through to see if I can find something more fitting

    Thanks for the tip~

    Moving the ground level to the bottom of the upper stairs seems like the easiest solution. The only thing is it would leave alot of open empty space, so perhaps I should also add some cover around the point it's self.
     
  7. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    I guess I need to elaborate.

    First, forcing the players to fight away from the objective doesn't seem that good of an idea. The CP mode was designed, so you can get the objectives while fighting, unlike CTF (think 2fort) where you need to go way out of your way to get the flag.

    What ends up happening is, that the teams are on both sides of the point, and can't really get on the point, because that gives them a large disadvantage in the fight. If you go down there, you just eat stickies and rockets, and have scouts jumping down at you from different angles. Pushing left or right around the point doesn't really work either, because it doesn't seem the ways around are that big, and you get easily locked down by spam. And even if there is sufficient ways to push around, you still put yourself at a disadvantage by having to push around, while not getting any time on the point and having to wipe the enemies first. So the best thing to do is to just camp on one side of the point and spam down everytime the other team is foolish enough to try and capture it.
     
  8. Korushi

    Korushi L1: Registered

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    I've already stated that I plan on raising it to about ground level. I'm also dabbling with competely re-designs of the point, as simply raising it leaves a big flat open circle.
     
  9. thekurnuttaja

    thekurnuttaja L1: Registered

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    I like the look of the map and above all the quality of your screenshots
     
  10. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    Well, if it wasn't to convince you, it was to give anyone a better understanding of why low ground points are bad. You can find an example for that on yukon.
     
  11. Moose

    Moose L6: Sharp Member

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    Yukon is actually a pretty good exception. Even though mid's in a pit, you're still in an open space, so you have room to run around and not feel completely trapped while capping. And at the same time, you're given some cover, so you aren't as vulnerable as you are in some other maps.

    As for your map, korushi, I like what you've got for your layout so far.

    I think all of the areas your control points occupy feel similar, though. CP in the middle of an open space, with some height around the edges. You should try experimenting with it, maybe by placing cp2 in a building, or moving last to one side of the room. That could also help you come up with some fresh ideas for routes and heights to use, so your map can be really fun and unique.

    Since you're moving mid's cp up, this probably won't apply, but those stairs leading down into the center seem a bit akward to navigate around. Everything else I'll just have to playtest to check.

    I really think this layout looks promising, and from what I can see the scaling seems fine. Keep going :O
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2010
  12. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    I agree with moose; my only comment is that the scale on the last point looks a bit overdone, and that having a low CP point isn't bad if you excecute it right.
     
  13. h3r1n6

    h3r1n6 L4: Comfortable Member

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    It doesn't work on yukon, at all. There is a reason Yukon isn't in the leagues it was designed for. The midfight can just go on and on and on if one of the team wants to. And that's actualy the best way to play it imo.