Wadi

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by luxatile, May 5, 2009.

  1. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    You don't need to tell me what you hate about CTF. I know it very well; turtling! People just staying in their base for god knows what reason, coupled with the fact that it's very hard to gain an advantage in the enemy's base/the middle in many ctf maps, usually means that it will be hard to get across to the enemy and cap the intel.

    Wadi (meaning dry riverbed... hur hur, I'm original!) is a CTF map that I have designed with one goal in mind: Make turtling near impossible, and focus on controlling certain areas in order to win. Each team is able to control the roof of the enemy's base very easily (offensive Engineers are important!), as well as a middle building. Both these locations house very advantageous paths into the enemy's intel room - which, by the way, is very hard to defend with sentries. All players spawn in the same room (2fort's separate spawns make it hard to gather a few teammates).

    Releases:

    16th May 2009
    Released a2
    - Slight redesigns to spawn
    - Changed the roof, adding more cover and making it less overpowered for offensive engies
    - Removed the middle building, added a small one for cover
    - Extended the vent to the intel room and changed it slightly to make another escape route
    - Fixed base front doors
    - Fixed stalemates not working

    5th May 2009
    Released a1
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  2. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Reserved post for future screenshot dump.
     
  3. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    CTF is funny because some players ragequit because they can't turtle.

    Good luck! I always love maps that discourage turtling.
     
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  4. gastrop0d

    gastrop0d L3: Member

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    I had a look around and it looks extremely promising. Aesthetically it reminds me of TFC. Probably the only [tiny] issue I could find was the battle areas around the train carriages is a little full-on for the eyes, readability-wise. You might want slightly more indication where paths are blocked around that area to help guide the player's spatial calculation. Maybe like temp barriers, something that looks like props_hydro/barricade.mdl.
     
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  5. no means nomad

    no means nomad L1: Registered

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    The upper section with the plank of the middle house seems oddly elaborate for something only rocket jumpers/FAN scouts can access. Either make it accessible to more classes by giving them a way up or consider fencing off those nooks and just leaving the plank open. They already have a height advantage and a surprise attack, you don't need to give them a hideout too.

    As someone who's also testing a map right now where I don't want turtling I can tell you right now it's kind of an uphill battle. Inevitably you're going to have three/four engineers setting up in your base and a heavy parked next to one of their dispensers constantly firing at the intel.

    At this point the base seems like it'll be locked down once you start seeing two+ engineers, or maybe even just one good one. Your intel room is really long but somewhat narrow, and all of the entrances to the room are stacked around one area. Maybe you'd have more luck by having some of the entrances hit further back into the intel room.

    The roofs of the bases feel way too big and boring right now. Consider removing the loop around and just focusing players to the grate along the front path of the base. I'm also not sure if you want to make it too easy for teams to set up offensive positions on a base. I'm not sure how the base is structured right now but maybe you could extend the entire raised area on the roof to occupy the lane on the right in your second picture and have a staircase for the defending team to go up there too.

    There needs to be a risk/reward for forward engineer positions, and if it's too easy it'll be boring for the attacking team and frustrating for the defending team.
     
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  6. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Thanks a lot for the very quick and surprisingly detailed feedback, despite not even having one playtest yet!

    Yeah, I'll keep that in mind. I was thinking about the readability in that exact area too, but I decided to save it for later.

    Heh, indeed. This was also something I thought about, but I couldn't find a good way to let people up there at the moment, it just looked awkward (like the roofs of the bases do at the moment...ahem) so I just left it like that. Maybe I'll just go ahead and make the whole thing less elaborate?

    As long as it doesn't get worse than some cases of 2fort, I'll be relatively happy, but you're absolutely right. I don't think there's anything to do; people are amazingly stupid regardless of the map.

    Good point about moving the entrances. I might move the upper duct entrance closer to the intel. However, the reason the intel room is so open and long is that Soldiers, Demomen, Snipers and such are supposed to have a very easy time takig out Sentries regardless of their positions. Still, as you said, I'll move an entrance - it might even help people who are trying to take out Sentries from long range.

    If I understand you right, there is a staircase for the defending team to get onto the roof. I'll consider your idea of focusing players on the roof as well, because - yes - I agree it's a tad too big.

    Much of the point in this map is to remove the risk and increase the reward, so I don't see myself changing a lot of this without a very good reason. Still, if I have to make some small adjustments, I could always decrease the metal in advantageous places and increase it in risky positions, for example.
     
  7. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    While I'm waiting for people to respond with feedback, here's whatI managed to grasp from gameday:

    - Spawn doors are bad. I'll add a wall or something.
    - Some people seemed confused as to where the intel was, others claimed sings were excessive. Err...
    - Doors in and out of the spawn are messed up. They seem to open at random. Maybe I accidentally named the red ones the same as the blue ones...
    - Middle section is pretty useless.
    - Offensive Engies might be overpowered on the roof.
    - One-way tunnel proved confusing, as I feared...
    - Some people claimed it was HEE-UGE, while others said it was a bit small. Help me out here? :O
    - I heard something about clipping. I need some directions here, I think.
    - I also heard someone complaining about big sighltlines, but I don't know where that was.
     
  8. Pianodan

    Pianodan L3: Member

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    Honestly, I think the size of the map is fine. However, I think the offensive engie thing could be mitigated a bit by downsizing the ammo pack on the roof of the base from a large to a medium or small.

    The roof entrance to the vent system needs a way to get back out, because if you drop down and find yourself cornered by a sentry, you've got no escape.

    Other than that, I enjoyed the map, thanks!
     
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  9. Not_Yet

    Not_Yet L1: Registered

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    i liked the map, it's a nice small and narrow map. imo i thought that the intel was too hard to cap, in some ways. i'd also like the vent on the rooftop so you can get back out.
     
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  10. Hellfire

    Hellfire L9: Fashionable Member

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    from what i found in a2. but this are all minor things,generaly i like the layout of the map,except for intel rooms,there shouldnt be so great size and hight amplitude,but this is only my opinnion) anyway,good progress comparing to a1
     
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  11. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Thanks for that. I'll make sure to clip the vents (or add something as a ramp), and I actually forgot about the visualizer. I was going to fix it. :p

    I might add a BLU sign to the middle to help make the differences of the sides more obvious. Either way, when I start detailing, I'm going to make the themes more obvious.

    Err, dunno about that door though. Maybe, but it seems unnecessary to me.
     
  12. Hellfire

    Hellfire L9: Fashionable Member

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    wtf
     
  13. Pianodan

    Pianodan L3: Member

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    Oh, I mentioned this during the play day, but I have since confirmed.. on Valve maps, where there are two symmetrical camera positions on opposite sides of the map, they DO in fact jog one camera just a bit up or down.

    The point is that when you click from one camera to the next, the scene doesn't just change colors; the perspective shifts just enough so you're sure you're looking at something different.

    A very minor nitpick.
     
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  14. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Yeah, I've noticed it, especially on 2fort. Dunno how important it is to change, but... I might get around to it.
     
  15. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Here's a little gameday bump for you all.

    It seemed to play fine to me, but I'm sure someone has something to contribute with.
     
  16. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Well, I'm disappointed. No comments? No screenshots?

    I'll give you some tips as to what I need to know:
    - How's the middle? Size, etc.
    - Overall map size? I hear people complain about it being big, and others mention that it's a little small... uhh...
    - How are the new vents working out?
    - Anything else I might have missed?
    - Cor told me the scale was off on the inside. However, if anyone could give me more details about that, I'd be happy, because it seems fine to me.
    - Anything you think I've completely overlooked? :/
    - How does it play overall? Am I far from or close to a good map, gameplay-wise?