Unity vs. HL2:ep2 mod(s)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Fr0Z3nR, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I'd like to go on the record for saying that this does reflect something I may or may not want to do, but won't be doing anytime soon due to excess class time.

    Anyways, main question:

    I have an idea for a physics based puzzler. It is the story of one man's hope and adventure to find civilization after his plane crash lands in the rainforest. No shooting. some of the story details are still fuzzy/not made yet, but it would require a really interactive environment, patrolling/dynamic NPC's, etc. I also want it to look good (like, portal 2 lighting good).

    I talked about this game/mod idea I had in chat a little earlier, and they suggested Unity. I'll be honest, I don't know much programming, but if this idea of mine was ever to actually become something, I'd probably get other people to help. I've also looked at what unity can do, and am impressed.

    I also know that ep2 source mod would also acheive what I want to do, and is a little more easier visually to work with...

    So, I ask, which would be better to use, when making a "game." I'd prefer not to have loading screens, though instanced area's or something like HL2's loading... thing would work...

    I hope this isn't too vauge... and again, this is just a generic question on which would be better for a "hobby game designer" to take a crack at.
     
  2. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    Source is pretty terrible, I don't see why you'd want to work with it instead of Unity or UDK

    are you absolutely sure it would be possible in Source, because from the short summary you gave I'm already doubting that
     
  3. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Well, I looked into it a couple month ago when I first started writing up the plan for the game/mod/thingy I was a little skeptical at first, but was going to do like a proof-of-concept test in source to see how the idea worked, but for a full game I was still thinking about it.

    EDIT: I now realize the power of the PhysX Engine...
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  4. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Remember that you have to compare "Time/effort to fix/avoid problems in source" with "Time/effort to learn Unity"
     
  5. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    Use Unity. Source is rubbish.
     
  6. Terwonick

    Terwonick L6: Sharp Member

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  7. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    With my experiences with both engines (plus UE3) the source engine is hell of a lot harder to program/script for since when you start off, you get the source code instead of nothing and it tells you to start from there. Unity however, gives you no code to start with however you can script things to do differently. Unity itself is a time saver if you are by yourself or you have a few team members. I currently develop for Unity and the only problems I am seeing with the physics in it is that an object with a very high velocity can go right through objects you would have normally block things like that. On the other hand, Source or UDK don't do that. Also you might want to check out the CryEngine3 SDK. looks interesting.

    tl;dr version: Id choose Unity and UDK over Source for any kind of puzzler. Source is mainly for FPS type games (and dota) while Unity and UDK can be a magnitude of different genres.

    EDIT: oh plus for unity you can load it up onto the web (example: my game http://www.kongregate.com/games/AgeNtNicK/flight-of-the-condor )
     
  8. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Interesting Agnt_...


    I guess I'd use unity if this ever comes to fruition (I don't even have a design doc/outline done, so yea. there is that).

    How much coding is really needed for unity? If I was to do something like this 1) it would start next spring. 2) I'd have taken the intro level programming course for C++, I know I need to know C#, but how good would I need to be to program for it? 3) The world editor looks pretty good and pretty powerful, but does it come with stock textures? I assume there may be some models, but I also guess I can get those from the interwebz.

    Well, a way I could get around the programming is to work with someone who can program and knows unity. And a way to get around models/textures is to do it myself/get a modeler. And for the world editing... well, I like that.

    I need to see what my spring semester/summer plans are. But when I have time and idea's I'll work on the doc. I'll see what I have by my holiday break and then maybe I'll start looking into seeing if developing a full game is something I can do, or if I could manage a team of people.

    EDIT: I also don't know if I would develop the game to sell. Not because I don't want to get money, but because I don't want to have to deal with money, or investing. And I don't want to start something, have it gain popularity, then not finish it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  9. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    the amount of programming really depends on what it is and how good you can program. my first game with unity had about 30 different scripts for 4 simple levels (which now that i look at it, it is way inefficient).

    all you would really need is the basic knowledge on programming. stuff like for-loops, arrays and what-not. Unity supports 3 scripting languages (C#, Java, and Boo) and their whole scripting reference will show you most of what it can do. I had the privileged to be taught Unity by an instructor in school.

    Unity does come with some assets like skybox's and stuff, but mainly the way it accepts other files is one edge it has over than any other game engine. All it is is pretty much dragging and dropping. Textures can be .tga, .png, .jpg or any other normal picture format (even .psd). Putting models (from 3ds max, or any other modeler) can export right from a .fbx and it can use that in game from that file. Animations are a bit tricky since all the animations have to be in one file. But it supports all the same features as source does.

    If you can dedicate your time and make a few simple test projects, I bet you will feel like you can do anything in the program. You don't need to painstakingly compile each model into the engine or convert a .tga and script the material in(even though, sometimes id rather do that).

    there is a guy at my school right now trying to pitch an idea to me for a game he wants to make by the end of school. he isn't succeeding at it and im not buying it to what he wants. if you can get a convincing idea going and pitch it to the right people and nail it on the head, its game on. who knows, im graduating college in spring.

    Unity is a great starting point with games. you could always make some pennies off of Kongregate and their ad revenue but its not much. Unity Pro does cost a meer 1000$ but it does come with a bunch of cool things and a license to sell your goods. But you would also need real programs like 3ds max and not the student versions so you can sell.

    Overall, id think you would like Unity. It's simple yet effective. But you won't see any AAA games using it. Only game I know on steam that uses it is Bob Came in Pieces.

    Also, sometimes Unity does point you to valve's source engine (look at the bottom)
     
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    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  10. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    That's like asking the length of a piece of string. :p It depends entirely on the complexity of what you want to make. Anyway, I'd be willing to help out if/when you start out.
     
  11. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I'll make sure to really pay attention in my programming class (I need a reason to, its kinda dull right now).

    I guess some smaller projects would be a good thing to do over the holiday break, don't know what, but might be an idea.

    Yea, the 1k Unity license, plus the buy price of 3DS/Photoshop and then attempting to make the money back is the reason that I don't like the idea of selling things (Show's how confident I am in my own idea's, mainly because what I think is great, not many others think so the same way

    EDIT: something else: how are ingame-interfaces? Like an inventory of sorts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  12. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    Well for something small all you would need is the free version of Unity. All Unity Pro is is some extra things like real-time shadows. refracting materials and their water engine (plus a few performance things). You also wouldn't need the full version of 3ds max or photoshop either. Since you are a student you can get the student editions for a crazy low price (around 400$ each[hey its better than 4000$ each]) and I think autodesk is giving their product free for a year if your a student.

    It requires less code than Source would do. But it does not look as good as maybe something like Scaleform. But other than that its pretty simple.
     
  13. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I would need to buy the programs though if I intended to sell though, correct?

    And alright, I didn't have anything spectacular looking in for the inventory, but yea.
    I'm going to assume how I want the game to look is probably not possible with unity.


    Anyways, thanks for the info everyone thus far. Maybe I'll pop into chat now and then to ask about what I'm thinking for the game. If its not a game people don't seem interested in/don't like I'll either do something else, or just drop the idea and maybe do something less as large next summer. (so, keep an eye out for it :p)
     
  14. gamemaster1996

    gamemaster1996 L13: Stunning Member

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    One word of Warning about Using Physx stuff. It seems to hate some ATI cards, or atleast the Last game I played that used Physx disliked mine.
     
  15. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    It'd work in both Source and Unity, use whichever you're comfortable with.
     
  16. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    The only issue I would have with source (i think) is the dynamic props limit. I know its pretty high, but I think that it might end up being an issue.

    It would be much easier to make the enviroment though. But Source doesn't have a "Tree Authoring tool" ... which unity does. I have no clue why, but I really like that idea.

    and gamemaster, I'll keep that in mind. I have an ATI card, so if there was an issue, I'll see it.
     
  17. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

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    Yes you would.

    And if there is a problem with PhysX and ATI in Unity, I bet the problem would be the fact that Unity can handle a lot of physics objects in 1 world. You of course can enable/disable physics through code or you can make your own physics (my bird game, the bird had its own physics)
     
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  18. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    The real question is whether you want to make a mod or a standalone game (I'm grouping UDK in with "mod" because that's basically what it is).

    Source isn't terrible, it's just hard. In fact it would probably be great for what you want to do. UDK would too, but I like Source better.

    But if you don't want to do a mod, don't limit yourself to Unity. Most of my classmates agree that Unity is easy to use and fun at first, but gets frustrating when you want to branch out and do something new.

    Personally I'd recommend XNA over Unity. XNA is a great platform, well documented, and gives you the perfect amount of freedom without lacking features. And if you have trouble coding a whole engine and game framework, they have a couple starter projects you can download as a framework to build around / modify. Plus it's stupidly easy to put your game Xbox as well as PC when you use XNA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  19. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

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    I wouldn't use source because you want to do a rainforest
     
  20. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    What I'm shooting for is an environment that is very interactive.

    What I'd like is for the player to be able to see some vines hanging down through a broken ceiling, and have them be able to cut them down (or climb them, assuming there is something up there for them). And then later on, use these vines, create a lasso/loop, and use a young sapling, or a flexible branch to create a trap to capture or immobilize baddies.


    And yea, the map is in the middle of the rainforest... I guess Source could do that, but the fog might be tough to replicate.