Underhanded

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Ezekel, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    Underhanded rc1a
    Undermining all foes!

    now available in Raspberry RC flavour!

    A new locale has emerged in the constant search for those fabled pits of gravel.
    In the mounting desperation, fuelled by the ever growing gravel shortages, the teams have taken to searching below the surface of the earth itself.
    In preparation for the ensuing subterrainean conflict, both sides have contracted out for underground bases from the famous fortress builders of TF2M.
    Unfortunately, both teams have selected the same site for their secret bases, and when this is discovered, all hell breaks loose as each side tries to repel the interlopers.


    changelog:

    rc1a:
    - updated the preview picture
    - fixed the cubemap error (cubemap data existed, but it was not being used for some reason)

    rc1:
    - changed the lighting for the lightbulbs to remove the over-saturation effect on nearby wall/ceiling/model geometry.
    - added 4 addition falcon-console-station models in gameplay areas to ensure map is eligible for the tf2maps contest.
    - fixed the issue where players could get caught up against clipping in the vents, which also caused issues in placing engineer buildings in the vents. (caused by the collision mesh of the ceiling light models).
    - changed fade distance on a number of models, most notably the consoles on the 1st floor of the rocket room.
    - spruced up the spawnroom slightly.

    b10:
    - considerable layout changes to the two bases

    b9:
    - changed the spawn room position to counter the issue of it's proximity to the flag room.
    - set spawn wavetime to 7 (previously 5).
    - added invisible clipping to all doorframes.
    - changed medkit distribution within the bases.
    - made changes to the central area (walkways, elavator shafts, exchanged rocks for portacabins).
    - changed the front base entrance to make it more accessible.
    - removed balcony access on the right flank.
    - redesigned the intel room.
    - other minor changes.

    b8:
    - fixed a bug where no light was reaching small areas on a wall in the rocketrooms.
    - added small ammo packs to the side paths
    - removed the ammo from the top floor of the rocketroom
    - added more cover to the flagroom area to promote more sentry-antisentry combat.
    - moved the position of the flag to a more central point in the room.
    - removed a couple of erroneous (overlapping) brushes.
    - fixed a mistake in the soundscape file that had the central area's volume and pitch values switched for the thunder.

    b7b:
    - fixing issues with one of the areaportals

    b7a:
    - changed the one-way path into a 2-way path

    b7:
    - changed fade distances on some props.
    - added arrows and changed lighting to better highlight the base entrance.
    - replaced the dropdown with a staircase.
    - connected side passages to the rocket room.

    b6a:
    - changed fade distances on some props.
    - fixed a bug that let flags end up in an unreachable position.
    - fixed the "super-reflective" issue with the inside faces of the windows.
    - made the "tunnel" exit passage a one way (exit only) passage.
    - minor layout change to the drop-down/watchyourstep entrance path.

    b5/b6:
    - completely remade the front/mid areas of both bases.
    - changed the drop-down entrance path connectivity.
    - changed fade distances on many props.
    - modifed the spawn room area to minimise the number of obstactles.
    - added a few more ammo/health packs to help balance up the changes to the layout.
    - minor lighting tweaks.
    - darkened the glass used in most windows to make it clearer that they are not open pathways.

    b4:
    - added 1 new 2-way entrance into the bases
    - added 1 new drop down entrance into the bases
    - changed the clipping/physics on the railing models to counter issues with sentry targetting.
    - minor lighting tweaks

    b3:
    - fixed a small gap in the windows around the flag room that sentrys could abuse.
    - lifted the height of health and ammo pickups by 8 units (so they can still be picked up if a teleporter is placed on them)
    - rebuilt the main base entrance area to lead to the bottom floor (simplifying the path out of the base)
    - added a few arrows/signs to help players navigate.
    - added sun tsu's art of war easter egg.

    b2:
    - added more arrows and signs to the bases
    - touched up the spawnrooms to make them feel more spytechy
    - fixed clipping issues on models, including getting stuck between the truck and the rock in the centre
    - aligned floating models with appropriate surfaces
    - extended the size of the triggers for the spawn doors (now 136, was 128), door move speed retained at 500
    - removed collisions from doorframes
    - added tf2m posters to the spawn rooms
    - added more lighting to fix the darker areas of the map
    - set spawnrate to 4 (was default)
    - added the setstalemateontimelimit output to the logic_auto to fix the infinite overtime bug

    b1: initial release.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  2. ANova

    ANova L7: Fancy Member

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    Pictures?
     
  3. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    are there...

    try hitting refresh if you can't see 'em

    edit: if you can't see them, try pressing the "+" button besides the word "screenshots" ;)
     
  4. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

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    Wow - it's looking really great bud 8) Looks like a sound enough layout so can't wait to play 8)
     
  5. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

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    Is that a giant drill? That is a giant drill. Even if the map doesn't work out, I want that giant drill.
     
  6. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    lol.
    the drill is quite spiffy isn't it
    it was made by acumen i believe. it's available on fpsb and in the tf2map downloads section.
     
  7. Jethro

    Jethro MUSty Complainer

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    [​IMG]

    Behold! THE UNDERMINER!
     
  8. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    lol. what a terrible pun that is. and yet i still used it XD
     
  9. Gerbil

    aa Gerbil

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    This is what I have from the test tonight:

    [​IMG]
    This bit looks a bit unnecessary. Maybe you should fence it off.

    [​IMG]
    Reflective texture is unaligned here. And I think you should change it since it doesn't match the floor.

    [​IMG]
    This thing looks a bit dull, it's just a metal tower with a couple of crates and barrels on it. Make it relate to the area more.

    [​IMG]
    You can get stuck between the truck and the rock here.

    [​IMG]
    Weird shadows.

    [​IMG]
    This area is too dark.


    Apart from that, it plays very well and I can see it going far. Maybe you should add a bit more detail though. Some of the walls looked kind of empty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  10. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    From what little jumping around I did on the map:

    Corridors, and windows. Basically my first impression, or, words that described the map to me when I saw it.
    In the intelroom there were like 10 or so windows overlooking the area. All had glass in them, except 1 or 2(?). At first I did not see the glass and thought people could enter though them all, which was quite confusing honestly.

    I was in a network of stairs and corridors, I ran around for atleast 5-10 minutes and I could not memorize the layout at all... What this means is that the paths all look too much like eachother OR the layout is too complicated OR I'm not paying enough attention (but I tried :().

    These are quick impressions, don't take them too seriously since I'm basing this on a VERY short amount of ingame time.

    Otherwise it looks good. I can only make predictions of actual gameplay, which I would guess would have a hard time in the chokepoint that is the entire base.
    Shit, I sound like an ass :(

    Keep up the work, wish I could have seen it before it entered beta,
     
  11. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    Alright so, ravidge got alot of things right, the bases for the most part are just a confusing mass of corridors. I could see large chunks of the most underground parts removed and replaced with stairs leading up into the "main floor". That said the middle is quite well developed and seems like it could turn out to be very fun, having access to three levels tends to be quite fun. Have to say I am wondering whats up with the paths that lead out of the bases and into a wall, never managed to figure out how to get there from the base or what their for. <_<
     
  12. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    there are no windows in the map that don't have glass in them. and i'm sorry if it's not immediately clear, but no one else seemed to have any problem with this (i mean afterall you run past most of the windows on the way out of the base, and you can see the criss-cross pattern of the wiring inside the glass), so i honestly don't know what i could do. i don't want to fill them in or board them up, because they're sorta important to the feel and look of that area of the map.
    and before someone quotes function over fashion - i don't believe they detriment to gameplay, but instead enhance it by giving attacking players a view of the flag room in advance, letting them get a feeling of knowing they're on the right path. (and doing so in a more elegant way than another arrow on the wall)

    well arrows and more variation will help with that i'm sure.
    overall though everyone seemed to pick up the layout very quickly, and the game play was really working nicely when we played it as a 5v5. never got up to 6v6 players on the server though :(

    as for "before it entered beta" - in my experience with this community, i've had a lot of negative comments and general flak regarding things like dev textures or poor lighting or similar in early maps. alternatively, my maps would get totally ignored and/or just end up with zero feedback (or having most people leave the server) when i submitted them to game days for testing. as such, ever since the competitive 5-point CP contest about a year back, i've only released maps that are past the dev texture stage - if only to help garner attention and avoid slipping into that rut of being ignored once more.
    outside of tf2maps.net community, it's nigh impossible to get people to play my maps at all (though usually once they do they tend to be more receptive inthe future). - if i have trouble getting my own clan to help test/play my maps, let alone other players... well it just doesn't bode too well. so again, i start leaning towards releasing "pretty" looking maps in the earlier stages so that i can get the important gameplay feedback.
    basically, this is the 1st incarnation of the map that got compiled and actually had 2 bases. - i.e. the 1st playable version. i just didn't feel it'd be correct to label this as an alpha, as i remember when releasing the 1st version of farmlands (which was 1/2 textured and half dev textured), i got quite a few comments on the lines of "why are you calling this alpha if you've already started texturing it".
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  13. cadeonehalf

    cadeonehalf L1: Registered

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    [​IMG]

    I love the use of the drill, but if it's raining so hard, why is there no water at the bottom of the pit? It would be a good way to keep pyros from being OP on those walkways in the center.

    [​IMG]

    The spytech feels really forced throughout, but it's especially overkill here. Add other things to suggest a secret base besides computer terminals- wall computers, tile/painted walls, etc. Maybe since your map's underground, take a leaf from 2fort and have displaced rock walls in the base near the spawn?

    Actually, redesigning the back part of each base for spytech would make it very easy for newcomers to understand where in the map they are- everyone associates spytech with the intelligence in ctf.
     
  14. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    is updated. fixed pretty much everything people commentedon. ... hope i didn't miss anything
     
  15. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    and now... here's beta3 :)
     
  16. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

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    good stuff. i look forward to playing it. will put it on the maplab 8)
     
  17. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    Let's start from the top.

    The spawn exit is baffling. You leave spawn and immediately you are blocked by computers on the left-side. It should be symmetrical like this. [1] It only makes navigation more difficult then necessary. In the same vein, here is another oddity. [2] Yet again there is something else to block the players path!

    Now for some flow weirdness. In order to get to the other side of this [3] you have to jump over these railings [4],make a 180 turn and head to the left [5],make ANOTHER 180 turn and head up the stairs [6] and then you reach the other side! [7]

    Why are these stairs not flush with the wall? [8] Why have these beams been placed directly where players can jump to? [9] Why allow players to walk into a deadend corridor? [10]

    I can but only point towards this quote from Mr. Dario Casali.

     
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  18. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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    gotcha. - seeing the spawn room from the top down view like that with the overlay was very helpful

    the 2nd area you commented on, that wasn't a problem in the older version when the exit was on the same level, as there was a connecting foyer between the exit and that area. i really should have caught on that and removed the wall

    as for those stairs: if they were up against the spawn exit all, people leaving the spawn room might not have noticed it, but likewise i didn't want them up against the other wall.
    i'll try putting them to the spawn room wall though, as that concern probably is just me overthinking the matter


    as for the 1 way passage drop down - do you suggest i just remove it entirely, or do you have something in mind?
    i think there's room for a staircase there. the alternative that comes to mind is using height variation at the other end so that it drops down (with a stair case back up) to a lower room, but the passage itself is still at the same height - meaning that people who dropped down from the middle can advance but people going the other way cannot go further than a few metres, and can visibly see this before entering the room.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  19. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

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  20. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    This map was enjoyable, if not a little large.

    The very middle is excessively large, i would recommend cutting it in half. I do enjoy the design of the bases though.

    Many nooks and crannies for sentry ambushes, a couple people were complaining about it being "sentry friendly". (partly my doing, as one of the engineers).

    The front entrance should be more obvious.

    A couple people complained about the drop down being a "double drop down" that was also "one way" (although you could rocket jump out/into either end). I camped most of the game in there preventing any left hand flanks. In fact it was strong enough for me to leave it from time to time and flank players in my own base, that were going for the intel.

    Intel room needs to be smaller. I would recommend making the intel room smaller and expanding the room before the exit/entrance.

    Also, lose the spytech in the spawn, it should be wash locker themed really, plus the corridor to the exit doors was narrow and plagued with model edges that catch you.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010