Trainwreck

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by xzzy, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    This map literally started out as a joke.

    "We need a map with a whole bunch of trains," it was said on a forum. Custom map night was a day away, so I whipped up a quick proof of concept, and everyone instantly hated it. But I also got a bunch of feedback, I tore the whole thing down, and rebuilt it.

    Before I knew it, the joke map was becoming a serious project. Nine more releases were generated, each alpha adopting feedback from weekly play testing. With the most recent one, I actually got more people saying they were having fun than people saying they weren't. I don't know if it'll ever be a great map, but I think I have a workable layout and I'm going to see it through to completion. I've just barely started the detailing process, there's still a lot to be done, but the map is playable.

    The fighting is generally pretty chaotic. The map is quite small, and people are constantly running into each other. But each team has 5 routes they can select from to approach the point, and so far it has generated a lot of very close fights.


    The theme going forward is that RED has discovered BLU's secret bomb building factory. RED is fighting to capture it.. BLU is fighting to defend it. To aid in getting their products to the front lines, BLU built their factory in the subways beneath some nameless city.

    Included in the download is a nav mesh, so bots will work.

    I welcome any comments regarding texturing and layout. As I said, the detailing is still pretty crude but I think the layout has settled enough that I can start working on it. The map seriously needs some color, it's what I'm working on right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  2. PMAvers

    PMAvers L6: Sharp Member

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    Best.
    Map.
    Ever.

    (Seriously, it's a stonking amount of fun.)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  3. mcgathtwo

    mcgathtwo L1: Registered

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    looks great i will test later
     
  4. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Looks like an interesting layout but the hallways look a bit...bland. There's no spice, no detail, no variation. And you might want to through the odd barrel and that in for cover in those long tunnels
     
  5. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    Looks like your off to a good start. :) However, the map is a bit neutral in its coloration. Also it looks like it could be a really fun arena map too.
     
  6. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    That might be why the last line of my post says "the map seriously needs some color".

    I appreciate feedback, but reiterating problems I already know exist really isn't feedback.

    If anyone has a brilliant idea for running an underground theme and sticking with stock TF2 textures, I'd love to hear it. I've begun doing test themes on the map, trying to find something that works, but haven't found the magic combo yet.
     
  7. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    As a start, there is the colored variants of concrete. Other than that, without advanced detailing, you can use your lighting sources for added variety, and add simple beams and other simple geometrical elements that will add depth to the global illumination.

    Other possibilities are inacessible tunnels and once again variety in light source hue and power. After this you can add pipes and vents to the ceilings, and more railway themed props.
     
  8. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    I feel like I owe you some better feedback so here it is:

    First off you have a massive sniper line at the far left a right tunnels that a sniper could camp easily:
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-11-07-98.jpg

    Why are these tracks up in the air? All the others are properly placed in the ground.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-11-15-88.jpg

    Some spots are super dark.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-12-03-40.jpg

    Another potential sniper rape spot.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-13-45-96.jpg

    One sentry can more or less seal of the top exist for the other team and cutting their hight advantage over the point.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-15-56-24.jpg

    Small bug; you can build in the spawns.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-16-54-03.jpg

    Also why is there a health kit? The resupply locker is just 2 more steps.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-17-19-00.jpg

    Oh if you jump on the train in the center you can stop it at the visualizer. Clipping the top off should fix this.
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1276735/Pictures/Maps/hl2 2010-03-23 13-19-29-44.jpg

    OK one last thing. The map looks about the right size but it terns of what space will be used it really small. Most people will charge right to the point and try and hold it. This render the back part of the map useless expect for the occasional stealthy player who knows the map. I would push the spawns back and make the map more like viaduct were the teams are at opposite ends of the map instead of on top of each other. However, like I said before the current layout could work well in arena.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot one thing; sometimes the trains with "crash" into each other.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  9. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    The line of sight issues (otherwise known as "sniper rape spots") are something I've been simmering in the back of my brain, trying to come up with a novel solution. I know the easy answer is "put some kinks in the hall", but my play testing has suggested that every kink in a hall reduces the chances that players will use it, because it makes the route too long. I've been considering breaking up the line of sight with some prop_static's, but that feels like the cheap way out. Elevation changes are something else I'm considering.

    I did do some prototypes with a more standard viaduct layout, and was unhappy with it. It's not that I'm rejecting the suggestion, it's certainly a fair comment, but I'd really like to see if I can make a unique koth layout.. not just Viaduct with different buildings.

    Same goes with the back area. This has been a concern I've had for every single alpha release I made, it seems to serve no purpose. But I think it might end up being important when/if people get experience with the map. The back route, so far, has offered some certainty that no matter how bad the spawn camping gets, a team still has a way to escape.

    Thanks for pointing out the visual problems. For some reason it gets pretty easy to miss obvious problems after an evening of pushing brushes around.
     
  10. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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  11. heyyou

    heyyou L4: Comfortable Member

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    Looking great so far. This map has come a long was in such a short amount of time.
     
  12. Jethro

    Jethro MUSty Complainer

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    It's maps like this and whalerace which makes me want to have my own server again. :blushing:
     
  13. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    I've begun work expanding the texture set. Some early results:

    http://xzzy.org/files/games/tf2/trainwreck/b1_brick.jpg

    http://xzzy.org/files/games/tf2/trainwreck/b1_guard.jpg

    http://xzzy.org/files/games/tf2/trainwreck/b1_tunnel.jpg

    Just curious if anyone has any initial reactions to it. I want to get rid of the respawn room visualizers, so I tossed in a banded gate as a placeholder. Eventually it will be a proper prop_static.

    Last: Too many spotlight cones?

    http://xzzy.org/files/games/tf2/trainwreck/b1_distract.jpg

    I was just kind of throwing lamps around, getting happy with the available lighting, then I noticed how it looked from a distance. Cones of light everywhere. How do people usually deal with this? Just get rid of the point_spotlights? Or find a way to get the same amount of light with fewer light entities?

    I'm finding it fairly difficult to set mood lighting with one or two lamps.. I have to crank up their output, and it makes some really annoying hot spots.
     
  14. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Pretty close to exactly 4 years later, I'm getting close to putting out another release of this. The other day I uploaded this video and for some reason got a couple people messaging me for a download link. I had no idea there was anyone out there that liked this map and felt it was a dead project.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9RCw_oQrO0

    I've been tinkering on it off and on for a while now, I've been treating it as a way to chill out and tinker with Hammer and it's slowly gotten to the point where it's playable again. I put out a private beta last summer and it was a complete disaster, and only now have I gotten to the point where the problems are fixed.

    The layout is the same but for the most part it looks nothing like the last release due to a 3 year long detail pass. The "story" is that this is a bomb testing facility for BLU and RED has tunneled their way into the facility to try and stop the train rocket from successfully launching.

    It's still a joke map, but I'm pretty happy with where it's ended up. Ideally I'll have a new download ready by Friday but it depends on whether I break something or not.
     
  15. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Some screenshots of the map as it stands today.

    Views of the CP area:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    BLU spawn:

    [​IMG]

    RED spawn:

    [​IMG]

    One of the back tunnels:

    [​IMG]



    Still rougher than it should be but I've had fun making it.
     
  16. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    What's the particle effect you use for those flaming bits that go flying with each explosion?
     
  17. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    It's the finale blast from hoodoo, conveniently named "asplode_hoodoo."
     
  18. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    I got a vis mystery that is bugging me quite a lot. This map doesn't have much of a performance problem so it's not a question of making the map playable but it's a quirk I noticed and I'm not sure what's going on.

    Basically there's a spot on the map where I can't figure out why the game is putting it in the visible set. Overhead view here:

    [​IMG]

    Cyan blue lines are closed area portals. The red lines are hint brushes. The purple circle is the area being rendered that I believe should not be.

    Number 1 is this screenshot:

    [​IMG]

    Number 2, a couple steps forward, is this screenshot:

    [​IMG]


    I don't claim to be a master at how the source engine calculates visibility but I understand the basics and none of that information can explain this. Is there someone smarter than me that can spot what's going on?
     
  19. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Also, b8 uploaded, feel free to detail at great length why you hate everything I did.
     
  20. steelman4134

    steelman4134 L1: Registered

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    This looks like a really interesting map! Im going to download it to see what its like! :D