PL Tminus a32e

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L1: Registered
Sep 4, 2013

This is Garuda112 representing a team of students (including P1xel8ed) at the University of Baltimore working on a map series project. This is one of the maps, Tminus, a Payload map set in a Mann Co. Rocket and Launch Facility. BLU team is tasked to push the cart from one end of the facility to the other to, eventually, launch the rocket within to the moon.

Notes (12/5/13):
-New images! Images reflect current build.

-Sorry, the rocket does not do anything - for now its being left inert until we have time to address the main issues first.

- Original Concept/Design: gamerguy90
- Detailing/Editing: Garuda112
- Entity Work/Editing: djyindustries
- Playtesting/Feedback: This fine community and fellow students at UB!
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Mar 11, 2013
Looking forward to seeing this! But I see you've left your hud on in the screenshots.
If you want to retake your photos without the hud, after you enter spectator mode, go into the console (~) and type:

SV_cheats 1
cl_drawhud 0


Naylte ven, naylte yen.
Nov 14, 2009
A couple of pointers in addition to the gameday feedback:

One, it appears that you have yet to do any playerclipping. In Source, at least, players' hitboxes will snag on the slightest protrusion from the wall, so you need to use playerclip brushes to create a smooth surface. Looking at Valve maps (they used to be available in the SDK; now I guess you'd have to look at some decompiled ones) will give you a good idea how extensive this will need to be and what form these usually take. With props that don't protrude much, you might be able to get away with just making them nonsolid instead.

Speaking of playerclip, another important use of them is to keep players from going, or building, where you don't want them to. Case in point: Engineers were able to build teleporters inside the spaces behind the partly-open grates downstairs and the partly-open door with the two spare bombs in it, trapping their teammates. Playerclipping across the doorway and all the way back into the area should take care of that.

Secondly, lighting. It's pretty obvious that you're using light entities exclusively instead of light_spot, which you should not be doing. Light_spot requires higher light levels, yes, but it casts light mainly in the direction the fixture is facing, like in real life, as opposed to the walls and ceiling directly around it. You'll have to use considerably higher brightness levels (roughly 500-800 per fixture as opposed to 50-100), but if you're compiling with -final, the bounce should be enough to keep the surrounding area sufficiently lit.

Thirdly, the shadows under your tracks. It looks like you are using -staticproppolys, since I don't see any of the telltale "cut corners" that plague maps that don't, but I think maybe just disabling shadows on all your track props would be for the best. I believe all the official maps do that.


L1: Registered
Sep 4, 2013
Thank you for the pointers, stevethepocket.

- The nonsolid suggestion was great. I first lowered those floor lights but obviously that only lessened the inherent issue.

- It did not dawn on me to playerclip those gates. I either just forgot or considered them fine because they wouldn't matter for projectiles, but did not think about buildings. I assume with what is being said they also function as a barrier for buildings since a clip is technically solid to the player.

- Understood with the lighting - light_spot makes much more sense than normal light entities for realism's sake. Though I guess light would be good for "exposed" light sources that have no real fixture or cone around the light bulb.

-Shadows will be fixed. Thanks for the reminder.

Thank you for going out of the way to provide this information. I am hoping that most of the issues will be addressed in the next week or so. This is (for most of the group, including me) the first foray into Tf2 mapping, and as such, all feedback like this is fantastic.


Doctorate in Deliciousness
Mar 31, 2012
I like the idea of the map but it is filled with small rooms, thin hallways, and low ceilings. TF2 works best with open areas that allow players to move around. I constantly found myself bumping into props and walls that stuck out. This area in particular.

I, personally, don't see allot of 100% indoor maps and it may be because they tend to be claustrophobic. Think of how big the areas are in CTF_Turbine and take a look at the indoor areas for PL_Manngrove. I understand it's supposed to be inside but I still need room to run around as a Scout.

One thing to keep in mind with Payload maps is that some players like to jump on the cart and ride it to it's destination if they have enough room to stand. While testing them map, I found myself getting stuck in this pipe and being unable to move till the payload moved out from under me, instead of begin knocked off the cart when hitting the pipe.

The map really needs bigger areas as to not feel claustrophobic, but I feel that you have a good grasp on adding details to your map. I'm interested to see where this goes.


L1: Registered
Sep 4, 2013
Map has been updated to a32d, as have the preview screenshots! Many fixes and changes were implemented based on the first Gameday that hosted this map.

Here is the changelog since the prior build:

- Removed solidity of floor lights
- disabled shadows of track
-fixed RED sign at "canyon" before the spiral track/red spawn
-moved BLU spawnroom door forward
-opened small wall in spiral track area to deter being stuck in the tunnel
-removed some walls to eliminate cramped feeling in high traffic areas
-removed some instances of z-fighting
-removed collisions on small objects to ease movement along walls (junction boxes, intercoms, conduits)
-reduced amount of team spawns to 16 per team, adjusted red team spawns so they don't automatically open the door
-added clipping to doors, walls, designed-inaccessible areas
-expanded trigger_multiples on red team spawn doors to reduce being stuck
-teams can now switch
-added textures to roofs

-added clipping to doors, walls, designed-inaccessible areas
-added signs for both teams to stay oriented
-added new pathway to the left of the canyon corridor to give BLU team a flanking position
-added func_nobuilds to eliminate possible building in undesirable areas

-added nobuilds to respawn rooms

a32d (current)
-Fixed erroneous no builds: the problem was that they were not actually no builds!
-moved static props that were floating - one room in blu metal and grates in red stairwell
-extended backside of long track path
-changed texture of secondary area to be more neutral
-changed lighting to be light_spots for most overhead lamps, as suggested from feedback. This makes the -lighting more realistic, because the light is coming as a cone from a respectively shaped light source
-slightly reduced clutter in congested areas
-adjusted clips in launch area
-adjusted textures in first area
-added missing lights in second area
-fixed some shadowed props
-adjusted textures in red spy-tech for more color and variety
-built cubemaps!

Certain changes, such as addressing the clutter/congestion issues, are planned to be addressed over the winter along other significant changes. This will likely include lowering the second floor where applicable, removing some of the small office/room areas, and possibly adding more elevation to the payload cart's route. Any thoughts, suggestions? All are appreciated, thank you!
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