Think Tank: Multiple Team based Game Modes & Maps

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Mr. Calhoun, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. Mr. Calhoun

    Mr. Calhoun L1: Registered

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    Hi. I want to revive the discussion about multiple teams in TF2.
    First something about myself: I made several maps for HL2DM, and I'm also
    currently involved into a greater longtime TF2 map project. I do have some advanced experience in map making, but I'm not a professional map maker.

    You know sometimes there are maps which can be quite fascinating. You know these these kind of maps. They have a simple or sometimes even cheap level architecture. They would be forgotten normally unless there wouldn't be special. Special regarding their gameplay. Changing the whole style of playing the game in an interesting and entertaining way. These kind of maps basically invent the multiplayer game modes of tomorrow. They are innovative and nothing like other maps.

    Now TF2 is based is pretty much on a classic 2 team battle. And I think it would be really interesting if the game would allow us mappers place a third and even a fourth team into a map. Now many of you might think that a 3 team or 4 team battle will necessarily turn out in a 2on1 or 2on2 team battle. But this is not true for various reasons:

    1. In a normal game of TF2 you will have noobs in the game. Not noobs in the way of young players, but people who are total new to online gaming. These kind of people lack of the ability of communication and just will shoot everything hostile they see, even if it kisses them and gifts them boxes of chocolates.

    2. The architecture and gameplay of a TF2 map can be designed to prevent this.


    Now want to start a serious discussion about multiple teams for TF2, discussing possible game modes and map designs. I think multiple team combat could even be more interesting than you might think of.

    I've played Red Alert 2 online in FFA mode various times. Just like in a game of TF2 you have a base and factories and barracks which train soldiers and produce vehicles (basically in TF2 they are spawnpoints). The interesting in this FFA mode was to keep the right balance between attacking and defending. Lots of players made the big mistake to attack other enemy players with their whole army. This mostly left their base unprotected, so I could just march in with my militias and bring destruction. My strategy was mostly focused on damage reduction in my own base. I mostly kept a small army in my base and built an infrastructure which was designed mostly to spend the enemy too much time on destroying my base. This allowed me to move my whole army in an emergency case back to my base. Another mistake the players made was to turtle. While this protected their base in the beginning of the game pretty good it led to a dramatic ressource shortage in the long run on the other hand. I think similiar interesting effects could be observed in a game of TF2 with multiple teams and some interesting new game modes. I also could imagine a game mode in which multiple teams have to fight each other while at the same time having some sort of ressource which runs out after time and will lower their attacking power, unless they conquer points and conquer other teams.

    So let's discuss this topic and maybe Valve will give us mappers the possibility to put some more teams in our maps.

    I don't want to discuss in this thread if it makes sense to add it, or if people are too dumb for it (which normally can be fixed by a good the map tutorial design). I want do discuss the possibilities in this thread of multi-team based maps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  2. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Making the game support more than two teams would most likely require a complete overhaul of the code from the ground up. It's about the most far-fetched idea you can have with TF2. Not really worth my time pondering and discussing :/
    Having played TFC I'm well aware of all you can do with more teams, however.
     
  3. Grimes

    Grimes L1: Registered

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    The obvious problem with having more than two teams is the level of confusion that would exist in such an environment. Not the mention any variation that would exist any number of teams teams gaining up one a single team or ignoring one entirely. Wayyyy back in the day, we did have a 4 team map. It was ctf_4fort. The creator literally took 2fort, copied both sides, and rotated it 90 degrees from the center of the bridge. The map was in the shape of a giant "+" sign. As a result you had 4 teams trying to capture any of the enemy flags. It was kinda fun and interesting. For instance, a team could steal a flag and get it outside only to be killed and have the flag stolen and captured by one of the other two teams capable of capturing it. Or a single team could somehow capture all the enemy flags and score 3 points, while the rest of them are limited to scoring just 1 point.

    4 teams just doesn't make sense in TF2.
    A. There would be way to much going on
    B. Team sizes would be small
    C. Bases would need to be non-existant
    D. You would need an objective that all 4 can fight over equally, yet when it is taken to not "gang up" on the winning team.
    E. (in CTF) It would be way to easy for teams to simply overlook and ignore a team.

    The only gamemode I remember where 4 teams kinda worked was the "Domination" mode from the original Unreal Tournament. It was basically like KOTH but the caps happened instantly. But it worked in UT because it was classic Deathmatch spawning and each player was pretty much on their own.

    The only way I can foresee it working in TF2 is if a new gamemode is created that effectively turns TF2 into a different sort of game. Kinda like the "Gun Game" server mod for counterstrike. It violated all the rules of what CS was about. It eliminated the objectives of the map and turned it into a pure Deathmatch game, with the underlying idea that a single player "wins" by killing with every weapon.
     
  4. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    3 teams of 8, 3 bases with a middleground, intel spawns in middleground. When your team holds the intel your timer counts down from 3:00 first team to 0 wins. when you hold the intel its hard to keep it, as the other two teams will be storming your base to get it, but they also will likely fight each other over it.

    Optionally, rather than killing the carrier and dropping the intel, return the intel when the carrier dies, that way a team that kills the carrier also needs to hold the middle, and don't have to fight out of the base they just assaulted.

    there were several maps like this in TFC but they had 4 teams, I think 3 would work better with TF2, unless you wanted to use 32 players which would be madness
     
  5. Mr. Calhoun

    Mr. Calhoun L1: Registered

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    Good post Artesia. :)

    A game mode I thought was is Corporate Merger. All teams start with their own base and instant respawn. The problem however is, that spawntimes will rise up to 30 seconds during the game. To prevent this, teams must capture control points. Every captured control point will reduce the spawn time temporarily. Besides that, every team owns a Corporate Control Point. If one teams manages it to conquer a Coporate Control Point of another team both teams will be merged.

    Win Conditions:
    A) Conquer all teams.
    B) Conquer and hold most of the CPs until the round ends.

    Now this game mode is just an idea. I could imagine that it could also be realised with a crits bonus instead of a spawntime reduction. The interesting thing in this game mode would be, that at the beginning of every game teams will turn out pretty strong and during the first minutes the game will be pretty aggressive. But as spawntimes increase the teams will be forced to play more and more defensive, since mistakes might turn out in your team being merged. At the same time camping inside your base will turn out deadly, since it just needs to long spawntimes and a well placed ubercharge to merge your company. I could also imagine a "corporate demerger" mechanism for this game mode which maybe could apply if a team manages it to neutralize a corporate control point of a merged company, but fails to capture it.
     
  6. FlavorRage

    FlavorRage L4: Comfortable Member

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    Isnt KOTH suited well for 4 teams?