Theoretical: What if TF2 had three teams?

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Samniss Arandeen, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. Samniss Arandeen

    Samniss Arandeen L1: Registered

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    If Team Fortress 2 had three teams, how would that affect objectives and map balancing? I've been ruminating on this for awhile now, and here's some of the thoughts I've written down about it. If you have anything to add to this hypothetical exercise, feel free to reply.

    In General:
    -Places would have to be made a hell of a lot more defensible; the team currently defending now has two teams to defend against.
    -A lot of otherwise-stalemate battles could be won by letting the other two teams whittle each other down, then pulling a Johanna Mason on the lot of them. Map balancing and play areas would have to be designed to account for this.

    Control Points, 5CP:
    -5CP would have to be made into 7CP, all radially symmetrical, in order to give Green some land.
    -Each team would probably start with a base and a forward, and all three pile on to take Mid.
    -Only by owning Mid can a team begin capturing either of the two enemies' forward points.
    -Lose your base point, and your team loses. Obviously. But how would Humiliation of a losing team work when the other two are still going at it?
    -If Red just capped Green's forward and are working on Green's base, what happens when Blue suddenly takes Mid? Can they suddenly ninja all of Red's home points? Would Red still be able to push for Green's base despite not owning Mid anymore?
    Verdict: Three-team 7CP would be vaguely workable. Considerable playtesting would have to go into rules for capping points, Mid especially.

    Control Points, A/D :
    -Having one team attacking two different teams, or two teams attacking the third, would be obviously lopsided. At least the former would make some sense: Red and Blue attack, Green is caught defending themselves in the middle.
    -Or, would Red attack Green attack Blue attack Red? That would turn into a giant game of Cyclic Control Points. That gamemode is hard enough to map and balance for with two teams, try the utter melee of three!
    Verdict: Three-team A/D would barely work. Gravelpit style CP is completely out.

    King of the Hill:
    -As if that needed to be an even greater bloodbath. Wouldn't be much different otherwise though.

    Payload:
    -This. This is where I think a three-team fight would truly shine. Red and Blue are both trying to Payload-bomb Green, but it's also a race between Red and Blue.

    Capture the Flag:
    -Another possibility for potential three-teaming. Flags would certainly not stay in teams' basements as long as they do on stock CTF maps; however, once the flag is out, the attackers will inevitably bicker over who should cap it.
    -Scoring is a biggie, though. Is the winning team the one with the most captures at the end of time? First to a certain number of captures? Or does a team automatically lose when their flag is captured so many times?
    -An Afterthought: What if, instead of capping in your own base, in a three-team CTF, you had to capture in the other enemy's base? For example, Green can either run Red's flag to Blue's base, or vice versa. This might very well reduce the turtlefest commonly seen in CTF games.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  2. Lampenpam

    aa Lampenpam

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    Wasn't there a mod (source mod, not server plug in) for tf2 released a few months ago in which four teams can fight eachother? I forgot the name unfortunately.
     
  3. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    Your three team payload race idea sounds like no one would ever want to play green because you have to defend against two teams. Sure red and blue keep fighting amongst each other but green is an eternal defence where you deal with two enemy teams.

    Nice speculation though, fun read.
     
  4. Samniss Arandeen

    Samniss Arandeen L1: Registered

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    Glad you enjoyed it. It's been a pretty fun theoretical exercise for the last week or so, though I know full well implementation would require many, many Sourcemods.

    What do you suggest for Green, then? Some ability for offense?
     
  5. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing Back home in Jupiter, things are getting harder

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    Here it is, Team Fortress 2 Classic.
     
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  6. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

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    5cp won't work at all

    Let's say a match starts, Red caps mid, then attacks Blu's 2nd and wins. Bluis defending their last while Red attacks it or defends Blu's 2nd. Will Grn be able to attack Mid?

    If they are, the total chaos will rule, as Blu looses their mid, and Grn will later attack their undefended 2nd and last, leaving them with Blu's 2nd alone- like in "domination", but more confusing.

    If not, then Grn will have to come behind Red, forcing them to be attacked from both sides (mid and last), and that breaks a very basic rule of level designing for tf2 and other non-deathmatch first person games
     
  7. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

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    Why not make it into 4cp instead, each team with a mid and a last?
     
  8. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    For most valve pubs this would be the perfect team for them as they only want to deathmatch and ignore the objective. The green team is perfect for that as its ment to lose at some point anyway.

    The only problem is that there realy is no way for them to win or it would require a long during stalemate from both red and blue.
     
  9. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    A third team for a deathmatch niche, now that's an idea. Bit troll-ish though lol.
     
  10. ReachForASkybox

    ReachForASkybox L1: Registered

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    Minor Thread Necro (A week shouldn't be a problem, and I think this is an interesting discussion)

    Okay. So, first off is the Symmetrical Team. Let's call them G.R.N. Identical to RED and BLU.

    I'd restrict Single Payload and Attack/Defense to RED and BLU. With a single pushing force, there isn't any point in having a 3rd team.

    KOTH is still KOTH, Just more chaotic. This might actually not be fun though, as it's just more Enemies in KOTH, which really doesn't change much. What does a 3rd team add. However, there is potential and nothing is blocking it from being good. Just needs a bit more thought than just: "Add a 3rd team".

    Payload Race can still be used, and might be interesting (You might even get PLR_Dogbread style, but I don't want to go into that yet). 3 Teams, 3 Carts. Might work. Again, could be good but It could find up as chaotic.

    3 Team CPs doesn't sound good to me. It just doesn't. I could be wrong. 3 Spokes on a wheel seems to be the best option.

    3 CTF/RD sounds great. The Tug of war between one teams flag is probably the best part about having G.R.N implemented. CTF is boring, and if it was a back and forth between 3 teams, it might be really good. Or Really bad, depending on implementation.

    My main problem is that TF2 is built for 2 teams, and a 3rd team might be a pain. That's if it's the Same team, if it's got different stats....

    I dunno, maybe if Valve releases a sequel. I figure that will be when Half-Life 3 releases (Which I believe is going to coincide with first mars landing).
     
  11. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    That should never be a problem on a well designed map. in a circular shape where a team is forced to attack a specific point you can enforce them to attack a specific team. And this way it all comes down to who gets beaten down first.
    And making that shape mapping wise isnt impossible at all as its called instances.

    For the losing team there however should be a seperate mode, and this is a main issue as it can make the mode extremely heavy. And it requires 2 modes to be balanced.

    Another problem that has to be solved is the case where 2 teams would attack the same team (1 team doesnt care and just attacks the team that would attack them). As in that case it no longer matters who is best, it only matters which team gets attacked most as that team is going to lose most likely. But then again, in tf2 that already is the case with a team that has 5 snipers. So that should still be the least of the worries. Although it is possible to restrict them in their power using 1 way gates.