The TF2 style is very difficult...

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by TZK203, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. TZK203

    TZK203 L1: Registered

    Positive Ratings:
    Every time I try to act upon my hours in the SDK to build an outside map in TF2, I find that either the distances I create are either too far or too close--I am always worried how a Soldier would navigate across the map, etc.

    Also, the art-style is very difficult and I feel that hours spent trying to design a map has been for naught, for I just cannot manifest the style in a good way.

    I guess I am simply lost, and I need help to get me back up on my feet.
  2. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle L9: Fashionable Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Don't worry, that's just natural TF2. Start with dev textures. You know, orange textures?
    That's right, orange textures.
    Layout over detailing. That's it for alpha.
    Swap for beta.

    What does that means?
    Start making maps with dev textures.
    They must be functional.
    Once you get a good layout, start detailing it.

    The focus of an alpha is to get a good layout. They are represented in A1.
    The focus of a beta is to turn the map into VALVe quality.
    The focus of an RC is to make the map showable to people in a portfolio.

    In early alphas you should focus in the layout.
    By mid-alpha, you should focus in basic detailing and tweaking the layout.
    By B1, you should focus on detailing and optimization.
    By RC1, you should be finally have a detailed map with a good layout.

    Try to make the map functional before detailing. Fix the layout. Detail. Release.

    That's the protocol.
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  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Positive Ratings:
    When I was just starting, something I did a lot to better understand scale or detailing was to recreate areas of maps I knew well from scratch.

    So for example, I'd try making the start of dustbowl with only basic shapes to understand scale better, and compare against the distances in the vmfs in the SDK. Or I'd try to do a detail area from Badwater, like a building or office area, trying to be as exact as possible from memory.

    Maybe that'd work for you, I dunno. It helped me a lot though.
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  4. Aporoid- Epic2

    Aporoid- Epic2 L1: Registered

    Positive Ratings:
    If you're trying to make a map that complements TF2's style of gameplay, remember these things for all of the classes:

    -Scouts need plenty of space to run around, usually the size of the control point prop is perfectly fine.
    -Soldiers love to rocket jump. Give them plenty of vertical space to go up.
    -Pyros love ambushes. Make a few sharp corners to complement that.
    -Demomen can jump all around with several different approaches, grenades and stickies. Give them about the same height space as Soldiers, but more horizontal room, such as about 3 to four control points far.
    -Heavies need ammo, they spend it fast. Place plenty of ammo and health boxes.
    -Engineers are great for defenses. Create a solid area where they don't need to stay in the open the entire time.
    -Medics are usually a little slower than scouts, and usually follow specific classes. Keep the medic and the scout's room for movement equal.
    -Snipers need a good view of their surroundings, and their enemies heads. a safe distance for snipers is the same distance as the demoman's sticky jump, 3 to four control points.
    -Spies are known for stealthiness. Add a few secret passages for spies.

    I hope that helps!
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  5. Fish 2.0

    Fish 2.0 L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    I found that a good place to start with mapping art style is just buildings in general. Don't go crazy with new maps that have new locations because creating a new setting that fits with the art style could be hard.
  6. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Positive Ratings:
    3,769 or see my signature.

    The TF2 style is warped vertically by about 25%, typically you'll want your structures to be tall and this can help to cull line of site to other areas of your map for performance benefits. It also has the benefit of culling LoS even to jump perk classes. and you can play with horizontal scale by 1) reviewing/referencing existing valve maps found in your SDK folder or from our index or de-compiled maps found on the site. Or you can decompile them yourself using Nem's Vmex tool.

    Other methods of determining scale are using Boojem's custom TF2 FGD that replace the Gordon model references for spawn points and replacing them with engineers; as TF2 players are slightly larger than HL2 ones. You can also drop in temporary sentries as props and set fade distances to 1100 (their sight distance) for a good idea of TF2 scale and how engineers can perform area denial. Place them in a seperate visgroup so you can easily remove them ("turn them off") before compiling an official release.

    Good TF2 scales for outside areas vary between 1600 and 3200 Hammer units across. See my guide for a list of official map scales.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  7. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Just want to mention that VMEX is outdated and will not receive any updates anymore.
    Please use BSPSource instead:
  8. Bermuda Cake

    Bermuda Cake L9: Fashionable Member

    Positive Ratings:
  9. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Positive Ratings:
    The 1100 comes from the Q&A we had with Dario.
    Though I'm not sure if anyone has looked at code and/or tested which is correct.
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  10. Bermuda Cake

    Bermuda Cake L9: Fashionable Member

    Positive Ratings:
    I might have a look in game. I must have missed that Q&A when it came around, so thanks for the link!

    EDIT: From that very thread

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013