The role of crouching

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Terr, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    I've noticed that almost no official maps (and few custom ones) seem to require a form of crouching.

    So I put it to you: When is it OK to force a player to crouch along a path in TF2? Is it ever? Does it deviate too much from the accepted norms of the game?

    In my case I'm trying to figure out some vent-like paths, and once already I've torn things out in order to go with a version that needs no crouching. If it's simply "spy clutter", that seems to be OK, but these are significant links between different map areas where it doesn't seem thematically right to have a normal hallway.
     
  2. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    I would say never, personally

    Players will complain about anything imaginable to explain why they lose. Being forced to crouch-walk would be an easy target

    Sure, it's not a big deal, it's a small one, but lots of players leave a custom map because of small deals, never to try it again
     
  3. Radaka

    Radaka L7: Fancy Member

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    A good map will always be easy to navigate, not the opposite.
     
  4. Cameron:D

    Cameron:D L6: Sharp Member

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    Heavy+crouching = no escape route, you move so slow, and can't move if shooting.
     
  5. Open Blade

    Open Blade L7: Fancy Member

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    Crouching IMO should be an optional position for a player, such as you see commonly on payload maps when players crouch/walk next to the cart for cover. I don't mind the occasional entrance to a vent which would force me to crouch to get in, or even a window opening, but to ask a player to remain crouched and navigate a distance of any meaningful length is not a good idea.
     
  6. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Never force a player to crouch or crouch jump. All areas in the map should be accessible by running and/or jumping. An exception to that last point would be if it's an alternative path, but asking players to crawl a long stretch seems bad either way.
     
  7. SiniStarR

    SiniStarR L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    keep it in css not tf. A heavy's crouch walk is incredibly slow.
     
  8. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Crouching is not usually good...but...

    I found playing with my friends and online, that if there is an upside to crouching, then some will take it.

    For example, say there is a vent that will allow a shortcut access to a control point or intelligence. Despite it being a lot slower, a lot of players will take it because maybe the main way will be heavily defended. Causing them to sacrifice speed you need to give them something worth it.

    Many players will crouch with the cloak and dagger to slow down the dropping rate, or crouch behind the cart.

    It can be good in the right place, but never FORCE the player to crouch.
     
  9. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    i don´t like having to push the crouch button to get into a ventilation shaft, but when the crouch happens automatically (vents on last point on hydro) i´m totally ok with it
     
  10. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I don't think forcing a player to crouch is a good idea as everyone else said.

    But crouch jumping is fine IMO. I was playing Gravel pit yesterday and it's a prime example. From B going to C that back ramp/platform is almost crouch jump along the entire lenght. It's a shortcut so crouch jump is no big deal.

    I think of crouch jump as navigation that takes a little skill. But crouch walking to get through a vent is more of a hassle/annoyance.
     
  11. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Crouch jumping to navigate quickly is an intermediate skill that can, of course, be used in any map, so I don't think there's anything wrong with intentionally creating areas where crouch jumping can be used for a shortcut. I'm trying to say that if a certain area or main route can only be accessed by crouch jumping, that's bad. For example, the left route in Dustbowl 2-2 is almost crossing the line - if you had to crouch jump up those crates, new players would be frustrated and confused. Fortunately, Valve made it possible to get up there with normal jumps.
     
  12. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    I think it would be acceptable to have highly secret alternate routes, such as through a vent or sewer could be crouch-only. But over 99% of the map should be easy maneuvering.
     
  13. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    It's worth noting that if you're going to have any crouch-only areas, you should make sure that they're broad enough to be entered easily. There's a custom map whose name I forget (Escher House?) where one of the main routes from the spawn point to your own flag involves a ventilation duct that both requires you to crouch, and is barely wide enough to let you in. The end result is that you have to crouch and then wiggle back and forth, slowly, until you get it just right so you can walk through.

    This was highly frustrating to me, even though it was little more than a doorway that expanded into a full room after you were through, at least in part because I was passing through it regularly as an Engineer as the nearest safe source of metal was through this vent. To say nothing of being killed and having a Sentry Gun in need of repair, and then when you respawn being stuck in a doorway.
     
  14. KarmaPolice

    KarmaPolice L3: Member

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    There's nothing wrong with paths that require crouch jumping any more than paths that require rocket/sticky jumping. In fact, crouch jumping is an even more basic skill than either of those.