Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Icarus, Oct 16, 2009.
EDIT: Why do people keep referencing this post?
Dude, we still have no idea what you are talking about.
Everyone loves Vector.
What about the maps that people never heard of?
Everyone knows Vector.
You have no idea how many times I've been asked what a "plr_scoville" is.
Stop whining and be happy you're at least well known.
You GRIND your maps into the ground yourself. its your own doing, you did it rediculously with waste and you've done it (with a lot of probably unwanted help from others) with vector too.
Making vector so many damn modes and getting ALL of them tested weekly in gamedays was horrible, "whats in gameday today then?" "waste" "wasnt that yesterday??" "yeah, tomorrow too"
Now with vector, its run as the "I want my map tested, but need two for an announcement, I'll do vector!" so the result is it's announced as running every day or two.
I appreciate that this time it's not your fault but if you play the same map over and over and not any others, you're gunna get sick.
My advice to you (and everyone) is find one of the smaller communities willing to run it, there are lots. And stick with them and split your testing. Or better yet. befriend F_M and run it on 2f2f or talk to the No Heroes guys and get it on a server for a few weeks.
Basicly: you're in beta testing now, its not up to us alone to help you test, you gotta branch out and start getting other people to play it, cause if you dont do it now, no one will ever play it.
He is already friends with FM, now if he just made a thread for Vector on the forums...
Hmm i understand what you mean , but TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR THREAD. When you made that post about having trouble with vector your got like 3 pages of feedback and questions asking what you were talking about. You ignored all of them.
Plus during game days everyone seems VERY happy to play your maps. You are either expecting to much, ignorant and not noticing peoples love for vector and the PAGES of feedback, or want more feedback and making this up so people feel sorry for you and be nice.
I never hear anything bad about vector, and always see support (in chat) full of suggestions, and comments.
Please give more detail on what you mean. No one has any idea,.
Plus it is my understanding that maps dont have to be final at the contest end (uhh cashworks eeroine has been perfecting for over a year after the contest along with others, halfacre, stovepipe, fronteir ect.) Unless the contest rules changed and everything must be final at date i dont see what the rush is. If you feel you need more time, give yourself it.
If you feel that your map isn't getting enough attention to get it perfected, maybe you should try a smaller community if you feel that's necessary, I think that with the advice you've been given in the last few posts on it's thread, you're still getting a lot of support and help for it, and yes, think about the people who are struggling to get anything other than "looks good" on their maps..
Not a smaller but a diffirent one. When the map is fully textured we on ukcs are realy willing to get a test for it. And those are the average public players,
Hey, I know exactly how you feel. I tried to get feedback from one of my maps on another server and all I got was a bunch of bitchy whininess.
Oh, and no support from my fellow mappers at that forum.
I don't get that here but barely get ANY feedback at all other than demos. Even though I have posted something in almost everymap test I had been apart of. I just got to the point where I'll leave feedback in game, screw posting feedback for anyone who won't post it for me.
What're you gonna do? People like it they like it, if they don't they'll complain and try to ruin it for everyone else at the same time.
I am even admin on a server and everytime I try to get a test (up to a5 - not a39) for 10 minutes someone has to bitch about my map being on ALL the time.
I'm not quite sure what the problem is, but then again I've been barely playing TF2 recently due to coding instead.
But I'll just toss this little hypothesis out: After a certain point you can't rely on people giving you useful spontaneous feedback. You have to prompt them, to force them to think about things like "is the last cap too hard" or "should I add guardrails here to help people over there", etc.
[ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=112714&postcount=278"]TF2Maps.net - View Single Post - CTF Vector [Contest Entry][/ame]
[ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=112724&postcount=279"]TF2Maps.net - View Single Post - CTF Vector [Contest Entry][/ame]
[ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=112779&postcount=280"]TF2Maps.net - View Single Post - CTF Vector [Contest Entry][/ame]
[ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=112870&postcount=283"]TF2Maps.net - View Single Post - CTF Vector [Contest Entry][/ame]
[ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showpost.php?p=112964&postcount=285"]TF2Maps.net - View Single Post - CTF Vector [Contest Entry][/ame]
you know...since you didn't seem to notice last time <_<
I personally will play anything and everything virtually all the time, if im not in an event I'm either exceptionally busy, not at my computer, or just played tf2 for a few hours...
Exactly, this makes me think he just wants attention, since he ignores all these posts. But he seems so serious about it, i dont no what he wants.
Well I personally made a comment today about having 500 alphas... but it was a joke. Lighten up, nothing I say is serious ever.
Frankly I think this post speaks to a larger underlying problem in our community...
There's so much noise now, with the massive numbers of mappers who don't concern themselves with mapping & testing correctly and progressing by it, that maps that we all KNOW are good, like Vector, are being lost in the wash. Moreover, because of the noise, everyone has to speak louder and be more aggressive to get their maps tested, which leads more and more to people just becoming lazy about other peoples' maps.
Very rarely now are people proactive about one another's maps, randomly downloading something off the maps forum and giving detailed feedback. A good example of the way things used to be is Littledge and his fantastic walkthroughs. I think there was a time when that was normal; now, if you downloaded a random map off tf2m, chances are it would be poorly created or just a dead end map that will never benefit from your feedback (the creator will ignore you, I mean).
Fox is right, and like I have said before this is just the beginning of the CS affect. Very soon everyone and their mother will start mapping for TF2 and any good map will move of the front page in less then a day. However, I really hope this does not come true.
Id just like to say that the level of detail littledge put in has never been common, its always been one of those "a step above" things.
All it really comes down to is that there are simply too many maps being made for everything to remain community inclusive. So we either need a sharp influx of "gamers" or some mappers will need to offload some of that to other communities.
Well I don't bother asking for feedback anymore I just study the demos that CaptainAngry records work on what is not right, improve what's doing good and see what really doesn't work; the demo files teach me a lot about my own map, even more than playtesting it with friends.
The players tend to be a bit alienated with the new maps, maybe it's because they may be a bit envious that if a map is looking too good Valve may take notice and may give it international exposure; or maybe because some of the volunteers have tried to make a map, fail and just want to troll any new map that comes around, and they don't even notice it. But that's me being cynical.
Speaking for my self; I have recieved unreasonable hostillity towards my map Lumbercamp; I'll take any feedback and try my best to implement any little piece of information in the next iteration; but like 80% of the players say they hate it and haven't even play a single round.
Way back I thought of maping like a service to the community, a mean of sharing your experiences with the game and try to enhance the fun for everyone; but ever since Valve started "buying" maps, it's become a competition, a race for who can put the most custom objects and textures on the map; the one who can come up with the most contrived gamemode; the one who can make the best poster to promote the map. Everyone just wants their map to be the next community map added on the next update. But most of the maps I stumble upon lack "heart"; an honest effort to make the map fun for everyone not just the engineers.
Oh, I'm not asking for more feedback.
I'm not trying to be hostile or confrontational here.
I'm just asking for less of what some people claim to be "feedback"
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