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The invasion update was delayed because...

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Bunbun, Sep 18, 2015.

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  1. Bunbun

    aa Bunbun Gay sex slave

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    So i saw this

    Video Snipped - LeSwordfish

    What do you guys think about this?

    Please don't think i'm trying to stir up any argument.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2015
  2. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Let's not start drama here too.

    Things happened, people are upset, let's not bandwagon anything.
     
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  3. worMatty

    aa worMatty Repacking Evangelist

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    Can't really have an opinion without knowing all the facts.

    That image, according to Harry, is the percentage split for one asset alone. The two chaps are allegedly taking 54% combined, though individually they are taking 33% and 21%, which doesn't sound as bad as when you think of the higher, combined figure. It does not show where the other 46% is going. Everything in the video after this revelation presumes that is the percentage cut for the whole content pack. But there is no evidence to prove that.

    "Okay, these might be the percentages of just a single asset in the game. If that's the case, why is it that Bang and Ronin are still getting a combined percentage of 54% while every other person has to split the remaining 46% among many, many other people?"​

    Again, we do not know where the remaining 46% of this single asset is going because the person who leaked us this helpful image seems to have neglected to include that. For all we know, there could be one other contributor to this asset who is taking the larger share. AFAIAA, it's not the case that everyone who contributed something to the content pack has a percentage share in every asset (please correct me if that is actually the case). We can't take any view without knowing what the asset is and exactly what work went in to it. AFAIK there's nothing in the Workshop system that lets you pay someone who created material outside of the Steam ecosystem, e.g. Source Filmmaker stuff, marketing, etc. One solution is to include every person in every asset (a time-consuming task that's tough to balance), or simply take a larger cut and distribute funds separately.

    "So it should be assumed that the people who created the maps that are going to be seen in Team Fortress 2 Invasion are going to be getting the majority of the revenue from the map stamps. However, there is no information regarding any of the other items such as cosmetics, weapons or if there's going to be a type of journal related to this update, or not.​

    "If there is, however, please keep in mind that the percentages for Bang and Ronin will probably remain the same, as like I said before, with just one item, they're taking 54%."​

    What is the reasoning for this? There is no evidence presented to suggest that the two guys' asset percentage cut is the same for all assets. Again, we have only seen a partial leak from one unknown asset. Possibly an asset where the two guys' percentage is larger, because that looks worse. By the video author's admission, there is no information regarding non-map assets, but then he says it's safe to assume Bang and Ronin will be taking a large percentage cut from each of these unknown assets.

    "As like I said before, with just one item, they're taking 54%. If that's the case with one item, then what's to say they're not doing that with the majority of items?"​

    The lack of evidence to prove it.

    "Hey, this guy had a ten year old girlfriend when he too was ten years old. What's to say he isn't still attracted to ten year old girls now that he's 25?"
    "Hey, this guy smoked weed in college. What's to say he isn't a habitual drug user now?"

    "They're taking 54% of the cut and they're justifying it with a large amount of jobs."​

    We do not know what issues arose that prevented the web page from being completed on time. Maybe it was on hold because of the uncertainty about Valve's inclusion of the Watergate entity stuff. In any case, even if Bang had completed the web page, the update probably still wouldn't have gone ahead because of Valve outstanding work. The fact the web page wasn't finished could be a side effect rather than a cause.

    On the surface it's easy to think the jobs list goes in to low level detail for the purposes of bolstering the amount of work done by Bang and Ronin. But the sheet looks like it also serves as a reference that contributors can use to find out who is doing what.
    • 2fort map finishing, artpass and prop creation.
    • Prop creation, compiling for maps.
    • Asset design.
    • Movie direction, cinematography.
    • Destruction sequence and optimisation technical advice.
    ... are jobs which cannot be combined in to one lump job, like making a map can be. And let's not joke that any of the above things are easy and require little work. Some of the people in the list have large jobs but are only listed once, but they could be singular jobs that don't need to be broken down.

    I think some of the resentment comes from people's lack of comprehension of the amount and difficulty of work in a management role in anything. Yes, contributors should be recognised and paid for their work, and they are, but only because their work is part of a larger effort that wouldn't get off the ground without direction.

    I think it's important to keep one's head when digesting things like this. There is a sort of exponential cycle, where someone will post something bad-sounding, then others will pick it up and repeat it, and then others repeat that. What you have is a lot of bad feeling but little positive action in response. By treating these things as massive problems, we make them massive problems and it stresses people out, and causes more hatred.

    It's disappointing how much of this information is leaking, actually. I don't like it when I already know what an update contains before it hits.

    That took me around an hour to put together when I could have been mapping.
     
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  4. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    We should ban VNN videos from this website.
     
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  5. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    I'm locking this thread and deleting the video. This kind of speculation/discussion is unbecoming: we'd prefer people not engage in it. Once the update is out and we know all the facts, then we can talk about what happened. For now, lets not join in the drama.
     
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