TF2MAPS.NET community project: Second try

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Tapp, Feb 4, 2010.

?

What whould the map's gametype be?

Poll closed May 15, 2010.
  1. KOTH

    32 vote(s)
    27.8%
  2. Multi-stage A/D CP

    63 vote(s)
    54.8%
  3. Third option

    12 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. Other/unusual

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  1. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    776
    Positive Ratings:
    211
    Okay, I'm sure most of you remember the old community project, and of course the fact that it is now dead should be coming to mind. Due to a large amount of community enthusiasm, I have decided to start up a second community project with the goals in mind to fix the small problems with the old project. First of all, we will probably be working on a smaller team. Be advised that if your section is made and someone else does not like it, they are permitted to make their own (assuming that there are no other vacant positions on the map). There will be a vote-off between the segments, and if you happen to lose then your portion will be replaced. This is probably the best for of quality control we can manage, so keep it in mind when you join.
    Positions:

    Co-ordinator (3-6) this position, while it seems a bit excessive to have 3, important. Your job will be to keep in contact with all participants, and make sure that everything is running smoothly. If possible, we will be exchanging screenshots on a daily basis and you will also be in charge of running vmfs of the current version as frequently as possible back to me. By keeping a running record, mappers can make sure that the map blends as smoothly as possible.

    Blocker/base designer (2-9) You will be blocking out the map's initial structure. We want strong, reputable mappers here because this will decide the map's entire gameplay experience. Because this task cannot divide easily (explanation of the number of people below) you will need to completely block out a very large portion of the map. If time runs long on this portion, an extremely simple version will be put out, as which point the details can be divided among other blockers.

    Art and lighting pass #1 (8-24+) This is where the bulk of the mappers and man-power will be devoted. You will each be assigned a portion of blocked-out map to detail and light, and you will be given the contact information for your 4 neighbours. Keep in constant contact with them, swap screenshots on a daily basis and co-ordinate about your themes.

    Optimisers (3-6) Theoretically, a very simple job. Slap down areaportals, apply hints and generally raise the fps. This role comes after the first art and lighting pass because the optimisers need to keep in mind where the detail is, as well as applying prop fade distances. Clip brushes and all other forms of optimisation will be added as well, such as lightmap optimisation, file size, organisation and physics optimisation. This role may come before the art and lighting pass, or it may be done before and looked-over afterwards.

    Second art pass and final organisation (4-12) Just patching up the general map, organising the custom content and readying the map for release. Playtesting should be well over by this stage, and all should be looking like a finished, publishable map.

    Custom content (As many as possible) Any and all custom content is both recommended and encouraged. Keep in mind, though, that custom content will not be added until the second art pass, unless it is necessary. Aside from destroying the file-size, issues between modeller motivation and organisation can cause problems. Stand-ins will be used during playtests. If a model or content is available by the first art pass, it will likely be used. If you plan to release content (particularly large pieces) after then, your productions should be designed around the map.

    As you can see, organisation will be key to this project. The map's gametype has not yet been decided, but it will likely hinge somewhere towards multi-stage assault, because that is the easiest to divide between a team. This is why the numbers of required people is so variable. If we decide to make a KOTH map, the teams will be drastically shrunk (or split into 2 or 3 maps). Anybody willing to help organise, or who know any good ways that we can organise (project-managing sites, image sharing sites, etc.) you are welcome. The way that work will flow is as follows:
    1) the blockers, working on stages or half-stages block out the structure of the map
    2) each detailer is assigned 1024 x1024 (subject to change) which they must detail. They are to reference the main vmf, the constantly updated vmfs of their neighbours, along with constant exchange of screenshots. The detailing is to be build onto a vmf which they are provided, which also has the borders blocked in.
    3) optimisation is done in stages or half-stages
    4) same with the second art pass

    People wishing to add their name to the participant name should state their
    Name
    1st choice of task
    2nd choice of task
    3rd choice of task
    Any other notes/requests


    Any disputes will either be decided by the co-ordinators or a poll thread, as the issue may warrant. As for the current gametype, it will be 3-stage assault or koth, with a third option being added to a second poll if enough people request it. Please feel free to post with any special requests, suggestions or questions.

    Current positions:
    Column 1 Column 2
    Position Person
    Perfectly ultimate great leader Tapp
    Co-ordination Nerdboy
    Co-ordination Radaka
    Co-ordination ?
    Co-ordination ?
    Co-ordination ?
    Co-ordination ?
    Blocking Zwiffle
    Procrastination J4CK8
    Blocking sniprpenguin
    Blocking steff0o
    Blocking ?
    Blocking ?
    Blocking ?
    Blocking ?
    Blocking ?
    Art pass #1 Gundam
    Art pass #1 Aly
    Art pass #1 Westerhound
    Art pass #1 LaughingMan
    Art pass #1 The Mick-a-nator
    Art pass #1 Engineer (toast)
    Art pass #1 Tovilovan
    Art pass #1 ricardojvc6
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Art pass #1 ?
    Optimisation FubarFX
    Optimisation ?
    Optimisation ?
    Optimisation ?
    Optimisation ?
    Optimisation ?
    Second art pass Exist
    Second art pass ricardojvc6
    Second art pass Radaka
    Second art pass Untouch
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Second art pass ?
    Custom content SiniStaR
    Custom content ?
    Custom content ?
    Custom content ?
    Custom content ?
    Custom content ?
    Community cheerleader Westerhound

    EDIT#1: I have tried to distribute the current participants according to how I feel they should be organised. I tried to make sure that any co-ordinators would be dedicated, and that the blockers have a good track record (while I haven't properly looked yet, so that is subject to change) and it's very hard to decide what job everybody would be best at. We have a shared photobucket account, which will have a folder for each mapper. Anybody wishing to do blocking or co-ordination should also post their time zone, because if we can get mappers discussing in real-time we will have a much more cohesive product. I am also wondering whether anybody would be willing to donate an IRC channel for the purposes of this project.
    http://s846.photobucket.com/home/TF2MAPS_UCMP2/allalbums
    The password is tf2maps, and you should make a folder by your name, or if you would like to share pictures by a different method, please post it. I will make a steam group as soon as steam is working again. If you have any sketches or ideas for the layout, start posting them now because we will need everybody to get a really good idea very quickly. As Radaka already mentioned, the blockers will need a moderate knowledge of optimisation, so that the optimisers can get a decent fps going. Make sure that all blockers get a good look at http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=1560
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 8
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  2. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

    Messages:
    1,619
    Positive Ratings:
    1,709
    FubarFX
    optimization! it's my only choice.

    i can barely coordinate myself and I tend to suck at making a working layout so... yeah, optimization.

    note: I think we might want to start off simple with a koth rather than a multi-cp.
    a koth is a small job for such a team tho.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  3. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    272
    Positive Ratings:
    81
    Zwiffle
    Blocker/Base designer
    Second Art Pass and Final Organization
    Custom Content
     
  4. SiniStarR

    SiniStarR L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    585
    Positive Ratings:
    116
    Wow way to go Tapp you beat me to the punch :p

    co-ordinater
    2nd Art Pass
    Modelling
     
  5. Radaka

    Radaka L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    495
    Positive Ratings:
    242
    The blockers need to be the ones optimizing, as layout design usually needs to have optimization integrated into it. If you don't design a layout correctly, there are cases where optimization is no longer effective at keeping fps reasonable.

    I'm not saying combine the two, just that the blockers do need to know what they're doing (just like the original post says; I'm trying to emphasize the importance).

    I'm up for optimization.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  6. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

    Messages:
    1,054
    Positive Ratings:
    462
    There's a reason why these things never work - I don't know what it is, but I'm just not very optimistic about this project's chances.
     
  7. Sel

    Sel Banned

    Messages:
    1,241
    Positive Ratings:
    1,119
    If this takes off and I see some content come out of you all, I'll consider doing some models for this.
     
  8. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

    Messages:
    944
    Positive Ratings:
    564
    If you guys can get an a1 out, totally playable, everything working. It'll maybe be the first project like this to work.

    I wish you luck.

    (PS Do KoTH, and if the team works well you could then possibly progress it by doing more maps, getting larger as you go along)
     
  9. SiniStarR

    SiniStarR L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    585
    Positive Ratings:
    116
    Things have to be organized, and deadlines have to made. You can't simply start a project with little direction
     
  10. Gundam

    Gundam L1: Registered

    Messages:
    34
    Positive Ratings:
    18
    Gundam
    co-ordinator
    art and lighting #1
    optimiser

    Agree with this statement. Better to see a map through to the end, no matter how small.
     
  11. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

    Messages:
    3,076
    Positive Ratings:
    1,314
    Nerdboy
    Blocker and Coordinator

    Do MSA/D, because then it'll be more logical when work is divided. Quite simply, to give one stage or part of a stage to every person would be better than giving a part of a KotH map.
     
  12. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    272
    Positive Ratings:
    81
    Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're saying it's better to give someone a part of a stage to work on instead of giving them a part of a stage to work on, and this does not compute for me. Please clarify what you meant, I don't understand.
     
  13. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    820
    Positive Ratings:
    223
    J4CK8
    Blocker/base designer-preferably art and lighting pass
    Second art pass

    If it's only a small team then one KoTH map would be a lot easier and there is a much higher chance of it being finished. But with a larger team it would probably be better for multistage A/D but less chance of it being finished.
     
  14. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,531
    He means there is more to do and thus you can split up the work more meaningfully. In a dustbowl 2x3 style map you have at least six "areas" that can be given to people. In a koth map there isn't anywhere to meaningfully define different areas.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  15. Zwiffle

    Zwiffle L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    272
    Positive Ratings:
    81
    Well I mentioned this in the other thread but if we get too many people we could split into two or more groups - doesn't look like KotH will win the vote but I guess to me a smaller team constitutes 6-8 people - a 6 point A/D CP map would seem to me to be larger and would require much more organization in the long run.
     
  16. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

    Messages:
    1,619
    Positive Ratings:
    1,709
    while it seems logical to split the work between many blockers, I'm afraid some stages might clash together as everyone have diffrent mapping styles.
     
  17. Lancey

    aa Lancey Currently On: ?????

    Messages:
    3,076
    Positive Ratings:
    1,314
    That's where coordination comes in. We need to develop a plan before we open hammer and start.
     
  18. Engineer

    aa Engineer

    Messages:
    1,166
    Positive Ratings:
    372
    I would like to help with this, but i am not sure if i should better do blocking or detailing. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,851
    Positive Ratings:
    4,851
    Aly
    Art pass #1
    Second Art Pass
    Optimization
     
  20. Westerhound

    Westerhound L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    248
    Positive Ratings:
    100
    Westerhound
    First art pass
    Second art pass
    \o/