Tf2 theme

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by MrAlBobo, May 15, 2008.

  1. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    So...been hearing a large number of people complaining about the tf2 theme, so...it seems like it could be helpful to have some guidelines set up on just what this theme is. Mostly to slow the tide of massive hate for anyone doing something different, but also because its always nice to have a set of standards.
    So, basically just post what you think defines the tf2 style; namely texturing, map structure itself, timeframe, and custom props, though the more info, the better.
    Try to avoid openly criticizing specific maps though.


    As a bit of initial input, heres my take:
    As long as the map doesn't allow things like the other team in your spawn room, and doesn't have photo-realistic textures, im fine with it. Space is fine, winter is fine, even portals is fine. Obviously I really don't care much as long as the map is there gameplaywise. (Though admittedly, im getting a little tired of the whole desert thing)
     
  2. Lord Ned

    Lord Ned L7: Fancy Member

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    I wanna see more Winter TF2 maps. But with reskins of the current textures, and whatnot.
     
  3. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    To label TF2 as any one style or era would be impossible. Yes, the class designs were based off of 1920s cartoons, but the whole underlying theme of "Mad-Scientiests-in-your-basement" has been around since, well, pretty much the 1800s. And the whole "spytech" stuff you see in 2Fort, Goldrush, etc, is very 1950s, pretty much when the whole Secret Agent/Wild West craze began.

    That and they use modern weapons (9mm handgun, underlever shotguns, Dragumov rifles, etc), weapons that are phyiscally impossible to wield (a freakin' fighter jet Minigun? Those weigh 5000 lbs, easily), and stuff that doesn't even exist yet (cloaking watches, cigarette disguses, etc).

    Basically, I like to think of it as a bizzare re-invisioning of steampunk. Making modern stuff out of old stuff.
     
  4. Lord Ned

    Lord Ned L7: Fancy Member

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    I think there was a map called spytech or similar. Lot of props for it. There also used to be a second CTF type map called AttackDefend or something. (PS. Old files they left are fun)

    Also dragumov rifle? You mean the sniper?

    Also that heavy ways atleast 3 tons. :p
     
  5. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    Yep.

    Or at least that's what I find to be the closest match to it. Though why an Austrailian soldier would be using a Russian-made rifle in 1950-ish is beyond me.

    Though of course this is TF2 we're talking about here.
     
  6. joshman

    joshman L5: Dapper Member

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    I think that it is acceptable to use the Skull and other things like that. But no on the TFC Sentries. But the TFC flag is alright.
     
  7. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    http://www.valvesoftware.com/public...lustrativeRenderingInTeamFortress2_Slides.pdf

    http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2007/NPAR07_IllustrativeRenderingInTeamFortress2.pdf

    http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2008/GDC2008_StylizationWithAPurpose_TF2.pdf

    Download, read, think. Those are some of Valve's presentations at the Game's Designer Conference, and there's a lot of instructive material in there. Should shed a lot of light not only on what is the "style", but more importantly, WHY use this style.

    If you read trough those and still think something with realistic textures is good in TF2, then read it again, and again, until you get it.

    TF2 can happen in snow, in the city, in the mountains, in space, anywhere, but the looks is the brand of the game. Nothing wrong with realistic or out-of-place stuff in development work, but for final or beta releases, please make it all TF2 at the core.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2008
  8. Lord Ned

    Lord Ned L7: Fancy Member

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    To ad to Arhurt:
    [ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=5HLTrH0MQak"]YouTube - Illustrative Rendering In Team Fortress 2[/ame]
    Also effing sweet.
     
  9. rt3407v06p909

    rt3407v06p909 L1: Registered

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    This thread is why I keep my maps private. They're fun, they've been fun for many months of play time, they play well with a small group, and I don't have to follow any rules.

    Personally, I have zero interest in recreating something Valve has already done.

    Restricting mappers to a narrow interpretation of what is "good" also completely under-utilizes the Source engine, IMHO.

    I just don't get why something done for fun has to be so serious.

    It. Is. A. Game. :thumbup1:
     
  10. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    excellent, this is exactly what I wanted to see

    Personally the map im working on right now is my interpretation of a tower of high sorcery from dragonlance, something that would seemingly be far off from the tf2 concept. I like to do different things, its just far more fun then doing the cut and paste of the stock maps. But at the same time I do intend to make my textures a bit more stylized with visible brush strokes, and some props that are more "fun" then serious. I want the characters to seem to be part of the world, but significantly different scenarios.

    Still though, I want some opinions from the people really obsessed with the theme to get the full perspective.
     
  11. TotalMark

    TotalMark L6: Sharp Member

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    • Red
    • Warm colors
    • Natural materials (wood)
    • Angular geometry

    • Blue
    • Cool colors
    • Industrial materials (concrete)
    • Orthogonal forms


    Nothing in any of these says that the game must be set in Arizona, just that the textures should look painted or drawn.

    The PDFs also lend credence to my theory RED has less money.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  12. Ziggurat

    Ziggurat L1: Registered

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    That's just part of their 'cover' architecture though. Both teams are super rich evil organizations.
     
  13. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Personally, I don't understand why people try to do diffrent things. In cases like this, more is good. If you make an excellent map with the same theme as valve did... I love that more than somebody that tries to do something completely diffrent and will fail. Why? Because creating decent custom textures to fit the game is really really hard. This is not photoshop filters you throw on a normal picture, it's painting skills you need and you have to imitate it good.

    If you do things really diffrent and it works out good, good for you! I prefer playing on safe and knowing that there is nothing wrong with my style than :)
     
  14. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    i see...so quality is your concern more then keeping to the theme...interesting...and far more sensible

    now Im just waiting youme and any other people that want to add their input and i can create a list
     
  15. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    All textures must be:
    -Impressionistic
    -Visual noise free
    -Painterly

    All environments must:
    -Be exaggerated forms of what might be found in real life
    -Be consistent (so if its set in the future on the moon you can't have wooden walls or a 1960s b/w TV or if its set in a jungle you'll need to make lots of custom textures and props for foliage etc)
    -Not use any thing that is over realistic (that means NO CS:S textures/props or HL2 textures/props)

    Gameplay must:
    -Conform exactly or very closely to one already set out by valve (the DOM template made by thebladeroden is an acceptable custom gametype, as well as the KOTH made by pseudo)
    -Not have any unexpected or unexplained anomolies
    -Use already laid out standards (like the spawn room visualisers go behind doors not infront of them or if you have a start up timer you have start up gates that block players access to the map)
    -Promote teamplay at ALL TIMES

    Overall most important thing is:
    Consistency (making a map that is ALL realistic ISN'T consistent as it doesn't follow the cartoony art style that makes TF2 special!!!)

    I think thats pretty much it, people think I'm intollerant of anything that doesn't exactly match valves stuff, but thats not true, what I hate more than anything is inconsistency and people trying to make maps that feel like they should be in some other game rather than TF2 - stop trying to make TF2 the game you want it to be and make your map fit what TF2 already is, if you want a different game, go buy UT3/Gears of War/CSS/COD4/WOW......(get the picture?)
     
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  16. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    wow...that was perfect, everything justified and examples given...uintil the last sentence <_<

    I think youme basically covered the list anyways, but i still might write something up after I finish reading those pdfs that were posted
     
  17. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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  18. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

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    There are a number of HL2 props that would fit in fine if reskinned appropriately. But likely not the majority of them. Note however that even Valve has used at least one HL2 prop--unskinned even--in TF2. :p
     
  19. Snipergen

    Snipergen L13: Stunning Member

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    Examples? You could be right, if it's something small nobody would notice it.
     
  20. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    There is the wall light model that is damn near identical, but it has definatly been remodeled.

    When I said no HL2 props I mean HL2 props as they are in HL2, retextured they might just be alright.